Per-Show Song Automation

Pongo · December 19, 2015, 02:56:14 PM

Sorry if I've asked this before Arlo, but...wouldn't having the automation attached to the song at the Song level be better, than at the Show level?

If I want to add the same song to multiple shows and have different automation settings for one or more shows...how would that be done?

arlo · December 19, 2015, 03:19:03 PM

I think it's much more likely that you'd want to use the same automation for a song every time you play a song, rather than using different automation each time. I can imagine wanting to change the automation for a song, but then wanting to use the new automation for all future shows, and that's how it works now. What is the scenario in which you'd want to have different automation for each show?

Pongo · December 20, 2015, 10:19:42 AM

Well, it's hard to forecast all possible scenarios, but one example would be when I want to do a slower version of a song, such as Eric Clapton's acoustic version of Layla. I would need the lyrics to scroll much slower than they do for the Derrick and the Dominoes version. This would also mean that any MIDI data would also be transmitted at a slower speed as well (patch changes, etc.). The way that SLM is set up now, I would need to make a second version of the song and create all new automation, so...can't that be done at the song level (in a future release)?

Since the automation is only available in SLM in the Shows tab, it seems to limit the ability to modify songs easily, as needed.

I guess I don't understand why the song can't contain everything that's needed, before it is added to a show.

arlo · December 20, 2015, 07:25:23 PM

I think in that case it would be better to enter two versions of the song. You can put the same name into the Title field, but enter different artists to tell them apart. Then you could not only have a different automation track, but completely different MIDI presets, to use different sounds for the two versions, as well as different lyrics if you need them.

Quote
Since the automation is only available in SLM in the Shows tab, it seems to limit the ability to modify songs easily, as needed.
I guess I don't understand why the song can't contain everything that's needed, before it is added to a show.

This is because most of what goes into an automation track only makes sense in the context of a show. For example, you can use the automation track to start and stop auto-scrolling, but auto-scrolling only works in the show view, so you wouldn't be able to record or play back that automation anywhere else. Basically the purpose of an automation track is to record all the actions you make in the show view, and then play them back in the show view, so that wouldn't work anywhere else.

Pongo · December 21, 2015, 09:33:32 AM

Quote from: arlo on December 20, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
I think in that case it would be better to enter two versions of the song. You can put the same name into the Title field, but enter different artists to tell them apart. Then you could not only have a different automation track, but completely different MIDI presets, to use different sounds for the two versions, as well as different lyrics if you need them.

But this would not allow me to use that same song in another show, right, without having to record the automation again (and again, if added to a third show)? This second version of the song would be created at the song level, including attaching document, MIDI presets and lyrics, but the automation would be recorded after the song had been added to the show.

QuoteThis is because most of what goes into an automation track only makes sense in the context of a show. For example, you can use the automation track to start and stop auto-scrolling, but auto-scrolling only works in the show view, so you wouldn't be able to record or play back that automation anywhere else. Basically the purpose of an automation track is to record all the actions you make in the show view, and then play them back in the show view, so that wouldn't work anywhere else.

Understood, but consider this possible scenario:
During a break between sets, someone makes a request. The song that they'd like to hear (or in this case, the alternate version of the song) is not in my current show. If I had previously created it and added it to another show, the only way that I'd be able to accommodate the request, would be to back out of the current show, load the other show (just to play that one song), back out of that show and revert to the original show...while hoping that something doesn't go wrong. If you made it possible to save everything to the song, or had a way to export songs from a show that included automation, this would be much easier. At the very least, it would be great to have the option to `copy' or `export/import' automation from one show to another.

In the aforementioned example, I would simply use the quick edit feature to add the alternate version of the song to my current show, knowing that it had everything attached already.

Pongo · December 21, 2015, 09:56:40 AM

Cancel that; I see that existing automation DOES stay with a song when added to another show.

Thanks Arlo!

arlo · December 21, 2015, 09:58:52 AM

Correct. But I thought you were asking for the ability to record automation at the show level so you can use different automation for the same song in different shows; maybe I misunderstood the question. But the solution to that, in the scenarios you've described, would be to create both versions of a song as separate song records.