Let's discuss lyrics/chord formats

[pheldal]

This is not a complaint or a formal feature-request. I just want to see some discussion of lyrics and chords formatting in bandhelper for the longer term

The current format is based on HTML, at least that is what the output from song-export is hinting at. It may work OK when there is just one person in the band who is editing information and makes sure that the formatting is consistent. Another point is that there are ready-made HTML-editors that can be used within apps and on web-pages. The use of other formats will require quite a bit of extra work from the developer(s).

That said, I have song-databases with input from several people where the formatting vary a lot, and things like colour-preferences may make lyrics formatted to one persons taste unreadable on a different device/colour-scheme.

A consistent format where texts are tagged according to purpose (verse, chorus, bridge, comment, header, chord etc) would IMHO be much preferred. Every user could then apply his/her own colour-scheme (theme) with character-attributes for each tag without risking that another users preferences affect their output.

There is such a format available, called Chordpro. Chordpro is an attempt to standardise these things, although it is not yet a formal standard. It is however used by a number of websites as well as a handful apps. I believe it would be better in the long term to adopt that format, possibly with extensions, and contribute to future development of the standard, than to keep working around the issues with HTML in Bandhelper.

With Chordpro it is also a clear distinction between chords and words. Chords are consistently bracketed which opens for the addition of other strings to be rendered as chords (beatmarkers, hits for repeating etc), and it eliminates the need to analyse text to try to identify the chords, except for transposing. Any string that currently does not match the regular-expressions Bandhelper uses to identify chords is rendered as part of the lyrics, even when the bracketed-format is used. For example [(2x)] , [|] or [.] which are commonly used in lyrics with chords to indicate repeat, bar-separator or beat-marker then end up being rendered as part of the lyrics in Bandhelper.

Bandhelper is by far the best app overall for its purpose, but for lyrics and chords isolated there are IMHO better alternatives. I have used a simpler chordpro-based app for some years and it does produce much better rendering of chords and lyrics both on screen and on paper. My dream would be something akin to a combination of the two.

What do other users think? Is HTML fit for purpose, or are there better alternatives?

[arlo]

I have a few comments:

• The desire to position text other than chords above the lyrics lines wouldn't require a complete change to ChordPro format, it would just require a relatively minor change to my text parsing. That's already on my wish list from your earlier request, and requests from a few other users.
• Formatting lyrics according to sections (verse, chorus, bridge) instead of allowing any formatting anywhere (bold, color, alignment) would be big change for users and would introduce backwards compatibility issues. More importantly, I think these approaches are largely mutually exclusive, so adding the ability to format by section would mean taking away the ability to apply some ad-hoc formatting. One way to get both would be to introduce user-definable styles based on the existing formatting options. That's already on my wish list from your earlier request, and a request from one other user.
• Introducing any new formatting options creates screen space issues, especially on phones.
• If you find that your bandmates are adding colors for formatting that is difficult to read, I'd suggest talking with them to establish formatting standards that you can all use in your project. Sometimes a bit of personal communication can solve a problem more efficiently than a technical solution. :-)

[JerryK]

I would sure like to see anything in square brackets highlighted in the chord colour.  We use some arrangement instructions like this and it's definitely better when they are orange (the current chord colour).
Importing of lyrics or chords+lyrics (PC - copy & paste) frequently results in some or all cr/lf being missed out.  That creates a long chore to put them back, especially where chords were above the lyrics. Any way around this or to improve it?  I prefer not to use PDF charts.
How about a utility to add/remove those square brackets?  BH is good at identifying chords but we get left with adding the brackets manually if we want them.  I would prefer to just repair any mistakes after using a speedy tool.
How about a chord grid editor for those more unusual fingerings, maybe to be displayed in the notes or chords or user-choice?  Not for all chords but just particular ones at the top of the pane.
I hope I'm not too far off-topic
Jerry

[arlo]

Does this explain the issue with line breaks when pasting?

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1665.msg6409.html#msg6409

For a utility to add brackets, are you imagining taking chords that are manually placed using spaces above the lines of lyrics, and merging them into the lyrics with square brackets, like a reverse ChordPro positioning?

Regarding chord diagrams, here's a simple text-based way to do it:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1215.msg4333.html#msg4333

[JerryK]

For a utility to add brackets, are you imagining taking chords that are manually placed using spaces above the lines of lyrics, and merging them into the lyrics with square brackets, like a reverse ChordPro positioning?

I know nothing of Chord Pro.
No, magically moving 'above' chords into the lyrics is beyond what I was imagining but if you have a supply of dead chickens and black candles, that would be excellent.  I guess likewise to move them the other way, for some folks, would be great.
I was 'simply' wanting a utility to 'spot' the chords, whether above or inline, and bracket them.  In the case of 'above' chords, remove a space per bracket, to keep them in line with the lyric position.  There may be a problem with an inline "A" but that's so much easier to repair than doing the whole job.
I'd never used brackets before BH but I like them.  For me they bring a clarity that's useful when trying to play and sing relatively new songs.

[arlo]

I was 'simply' wanting a utility to 'spot' the chords, whether above or inline, and bracket them.

The square brackets are normally used to position inline chords above lyrics, although you can turn that off in Settings > Appearance > Bracketed Chords. Still, it would work against the normal function of the app to use square brackets solely for a visual delineation.

Instead, I suggest turning on Settings > Appearance > Chords Color. That will color all your chords, whether they are above the lyrics or inline, whether they are bracketed or not.

[JerryK]

Yes, I use chord colour, which is nice, though I would prefer anything in square brackets to take on that colour because they are all used as instructions... [drum break] ... [piano lick A B E E] ... [TACIT 4 bars]

[arlo]

Yes, I use chord colour, which is nice, though I would prefer anything in square brackets to take on that colour because they are all used as instructions... [drum break] ... [piano lick A B E E] ... [TACIT 4 bars]

In that case, the wish list item to treat anything inside square brackets like a chord, combined with changing Settings > Appearance > Bracketed Chords to Inline, would do the job.

[JerryK]

Ok, I'll go find that one. Thanks Arlo

[arlo]

In the new app version released yesterday, any text placed in square brackets will be positioned and colored like a chord. More info about the new version is here:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1785.0.html

[JerryK]

Legend!