Still struggling a bit with the new Layout editor

[chris@katsukurimedia]

hey guys, i tried to search a bit, but couldn't find what i need. feel free to link if you know of an existing thread.

i primarily use my iPhone 6+ for lyrics at the gig. before the big Layout change, there was either a Default Layout or default functionality where i could go from the Setlist, tap a song, the Setlist would move left (off screen) and i'd see my lyrics.  Pressing the BACK button on the top left would then return me to the Setlist and i could scroll and choose another song, etc. 

i know on the iPad versions, the Split View button was used for this, and it actually split the screen to show both. but on the phone screen, this default behavior where the Setlist actually moved off screen was preferable for that screen size (i hope i'm explaining this intelligibly!).

now with the newer Layout editor, i am really having a tough time creating a Layout similar to that old default. i surmised that i need the Full Screen Setlist button to see the Setlist, but the Editor screen is just a mess. if i have the Setlist lurking in the back, i can't really click it to edit because the Document Viewer now lives on top of it, among other elements. so i end up sliding the Document Viewer down a bit out of the way to grab the Setlist, but then i'll expand the Setlist too much and overlap the Doc viewer and then can't grab it again.

the recent update to pop things on top when you tap is a little better... but something on top can completely cover the thing underneath, and you can't ever grab that thing underneath.

all i'm really wanting to do is

load a setlist in full screen
scroll and choose a song - the Setlist goes away, revealing the Doc viewer and other elements and buttons i need
i can swipe or press the Next song button, but sometimes i instead want to go BACK to the full screen Setlist
once in the Full Screen Setlist again, scroll, choose a song, and repeat.

i guess i kinda have that currently, but the editor is just tough to work with. i sorta have this small setlist at the start so i can reach the other elements in the editor, then i press the Full Setlist button to start my performance. is this really the best way to do what i want?

i've attached pics of my current EDIT view and what i first see when i load the setlist/layout. after pressing Full Screen Setlist for the first time in a setlist, things operate the way i need them to, but just wondering if i'm missing something. it's still very tough to edit the layout like this.

with such a small screen, you usually don't want a split screen of any type, and the previous default and method was absolutely perfect i feel.  any insight? thanks.

--
and a quick thought on a different topic: i see others with the same thought that having to select a Layout when going to the Setlist for performance is a little troublesome. many times during the gig i will pop in and out of different setlists - that's just how it works at the gig sometimes.  sure, it's just a few more clicks, but it does add up and just seems unnatural. i'm IN setlists view, why is there a step between choosing different setlists?

would there be any way that we could instead

choose Setlist view
choose a Layout FIRST - this layout would be used for all future setlists that i choose to view
choose a setlist, select songs, etc.
going BACK from the current setlist brings you to the list of all other setlists to choose from, instead of having to back over the layout selection, then choose a setlist, then choose the layout again, etc.

i would think that during a gig we would change Setlists more often than we would have to change Layouts. so if that Layout select could come first, i would guess that majority of the users wouldn't have an issue - compared to reading about issues with having to select that layout between setlists.

thoughts?

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this still really is the best app out there for this stuff, so i'll of course use whatever is provided. but this improvement for the layout/setlist thing would help a lot i think. thanks!

[arlo]

i sorta have this small setlist at the start so i can reach the other elements in the editor, then i press the Full Setlist button to start my performance. is this really the best way to do what i want?

In the current app version, the song list should be in the background while editing a layout, unless you select it, which should bring it to the foreground so you can resize it or edit its display options. You can't select it now because it is completely covered by the document viewer. In this case you could resize the document viewer so it is short enough to grab the song list; then move the song list down to the bottom of the screen; then resize the document viewer to where you had it; then move and resize the song list to fill the screen.

Then when you view your layout, the song list will appear full-size initially; when you select a song, it will disappear; and it will reappear when you tap the Song List button. This has a few benefits over the old "two page" approach: switching between the song list and song detail is faster, you can toggle between them without interrupting audio playback or other performance functions, and the code is simpler so theoretically less prone to bugs.

i would think that during a gig we would change Setlists more often than we would have to change Layouts. so if that Layout select could come first, i would guess that majority of the users wouldn't have an issue - compared to reading about issues with having to select that layout between setlists.

That's a good thought, but you still need that menu to access the Edit Details, Edit Songs and Share functions, and you need to do those after selecting a set list.

I have a couple other ideas in the works for quickly switching between set lists and will update this thread when those are ready.

[chris@katsukurimedia]

thanks arlo, as always. again i enjoy this app very much.

regarding the layout, i've done what you suggested before too, but there was just "something" about making that Setlist set as full (as opposed to the small top left size in my pics). to be honest, i got really frustrated and just ended up with what i shared just to get it working.

i'll try it again and see how it goes.

thanks for the work on changing between Setlists. it's definitely a common action, so i'm excited to see your ideas.

[chris@katsukurimedia]

ahh i just worked with the Layout and i remember the issue:

before when i tried to make the Songlist Full Screen, i could do that, but then i couldn't figure out how to grab the Document viewer afterwards. it's STILL like that, since selecting and adjusting the Setlist covers everything - you can't grab the Docs or anything below.

what you have to do is EXIT the Edit screen. when you go back in, the Setlist will be back under everything else. i'm not sure what extent this has to do with the recent update of putting selected elements on the top, but it was (and somewhat still is) still a bit of a struggle.

so you might think you want to add and adjust your Setlist fully before anything else, but once it's stretched completely, you also can't click anywhere else to add more elements.

so you have to
first add all the elements you want
then adjust your Setlist to the size you want - in my case covering the entire area
then exit the Edit screen
re-enter the edit screen, and you should be able to grab the other elements to resize and move
BUT - don't accidentally tap the Setlist because it will jump to the top and cover everything again, so you'll have to exit the Edit screen again and re-enter

sorry if this seems like complaining, but i'm more just listing the steps necessary to get the old default layout/functionality. i do realize the power of the new layout and how much better it is. but like the first post, it is still just a bit difficult on the phone and small screen sizes to move some of this stuff exactly how i want.

[arlo]

Yes, editing a layout with layers is still tricky, and I'll continue making incremental improvements.

[pheldal]

The editor may require a bit of practise to get things done but I can live with that. I tend to use the same layout for just about everything and changes are rare. I've got more of an issue with how the layouts are organised, shared and selected. We use a lot of custom fields with info for individual band-members and layouts are thus rarely shared. Besides, there are almost as many different tablets and screen geometries as there are people in the band. To share selected carefully designed layouts may be sensible, but the current behaviour where everything is shared by default just creates confusing long lists of layouts. Especially in the layout editor where one almost have to know the model-number of every device to be able to recognise everything. I much preferred the old user interface where one would choose one layout to be used all the time from a drop-down menu that also included the setlist operations. The ideal for me would be to extend that and provide the ability to select one portrait and one landscape layout to be used (with auto orientation swap) contentiously until the user changes his/her mind and goes to select a different set. The current setlist menu feels redundant to most users in a band with many members where only one or two are responsible for organising the setlists.

[arlo]

To share selected carefully designed layouts may be sensible, but the current behaviour where everything is shared by default just creates confusing long lists of layouts.

When you load the default layouts either by installing the app for the first time or using the Load Default Layouts button, those layouts are assigned only to you. When you create a new layout manually, that layout is assigned to all users by default. I'll change that in the next update so it is assigned only to you as well.

[arlo]

I just submitted this update to Apple. It typically takes a couple of days before Apple approves the release and you can install it:

http://www.bandhelper.com/support/release_notes.html

[chris@katsukurimedia]

Thanks Arlo! Always appreciated.

[arlo]

and a quick thought on a different topic: i see others with the same thought that having to select a Layout when going to the Setlist for performance is a little troublesome. many times during the gig i will pop in and out of different setlists - that's just how it works at the gig sometimes.  sure, it's just a few more clicks, but it does add up and just seems unnatural. i'm IN setlists view, why is there a step between choosing different setlists?

In the new app versions I submitted to the app stores today, you can tap the set list name at the top of the set list view to open a popup list of all the set lists, then select another set list to jump directly to it without leaving the set list view. This is demonstrated at 3:18 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJLsGLgtMuw

The Android version should be available later today and the iOS version in a few days.

[chris@katsukurimedia]

In the new app versions I submitted to the app stores today, you can tap the set list name at the top of the set list view to open a popup list of all the set lists, then select another set list to jump directly to it without leaving the set list view. This is demonstrated at 3:18 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJLsGLgtMuw

The Android version should be available later today and the iOS version in a few days.

Amazing, as always, Arlo! Thank you for your continued work with this app. Definitely a mainstay for my performances, and I'm sure it is for many others as well!

[pheldal]

While the option to select setlist is nice, it's not all that useful to me. Whenever I swap between lists it is more often between a custom list and a smartlist and those reside in separate menus anyway. Landscape and portrait layouts organised in pairs that are selected as an option in the setlist/smartlist view and then applied for every list until a different layout-set is selected would still be my preferred approach to the selection of layouts. My layouts rarely change unless the layout engine has been changed or enhanced, and the requirement to choose a (the same) layout  every time i pass through the setlist/smartlist menu feel redundant.

[arlo]

Right, this new feature doesn't help when switching from a set list to a smart list or vice versa. But for people who are switching between set lists or between smart lists, it's faster than the proposed solution.

[chris@katsukurimedia]

Right, this new feature doesn't help when switching from a set list to a smart list or vice versa. But for people who are switching between set lists or between smart lists, it's faster than the proposed solution.

Arlo, i just got the update and want to say that this is a really great feature! i know it's only a few button presses to go back to the setlists, but it does take time. this new method is much, much faster, and it allows me to create full Setlists by genre or whatever i want, and quickly switch during the gig.  smart lists don't do exactly what i want compared to the regular set lists, so again, this adds a ton of functionality to how i run gigs.

thanks again!

[arlo]

In the new app version released today, clicking the set list or smart list title shows the last five viewed set lists and last five viewed smart lists, so you can quickly jump between set lists and smart lists.