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Author Topic: Split-bar chords?  (Read 167 times)

JerryK

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Split-bar chords?
« on: March 05, 2019, 03:37:40 AM »
Any chance of allowing split bars, perhaps by using a defined separator character?
Bracketed chords in/over lyrics works nicely because they appear where they are needed, without worrying about length.  However, during a musical section, it would be really helpful to show changes where they occur in bars.
Could you perhaps re-work it with a third delimiter, maybe a dash, vertical bar, colon or comma, perhaps even one of the user's choice, so that two or more chords inside a pair of square brackets would transpose correctly?  It would help greatly with layout and timing.

[A -  -D7 - ][A          ]
[E :Eb:D :G ][A :  :  :E7]
[E ,Eb,D ,G ][A ,  ,  ,E7]

Comma looks best to me - least cluttering; most obvious for what's intended.

Thanks for listening.
Jerry

arlo

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 09:13:59 AM »
Are you saying you want to mix chords-over-lyrics in a song, with another section of the same song having standalone chords? And you also want to use the chord coloring or transpose functions?

JerryK

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 02:35:31 PM »
I guess so.
Some solos are not obvious chords and some players very much want something to follow.  Split bars are hard to represent with one chord per bracket-pair.

arlo

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 03:36:59 PM »
Have you considered using the Chords field to show your chord progressions, as in the attached screen shot? I personally find this kind of setup superior to chords-over-lyrics in several ways: you can see the timing of the changes, you can see all the chords in the song without scrolling, and you can more easily see patterns that help memorize the progression.

I haven't tried using both the Chords field and bracketed chords in the Lyrics field for the same song, but it should work. Then you could put just the instrumental sections into the Chords field, or you could put all the chords there and different users could hide the Chords field, or hide the bracketed chords, depending on their preference.

JerryK

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 04:36:04 PM »
Thanks for that.
I'm not so keen to lose space for the lyrics.
Where there are lyrics, I much prefer chords in-line because a) wrapped lines with chords-over confuse the hell out of me (and the other guy when he's playing) and b) chords in the Chords section means looking away from the lyrics, which when trying to do both and stay in the room is too hard.  It's ok for some songs - I use it sometimes but I find it harder.
A quantity of the songs are not regularly played but rather by request for open mic nights, so are not very familiar.  In-line chords are far easier for this.

arlo

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 05:27:31 PM »
In the context of what I'm suggesting, chords embedded directly into the lyric lines and chords positioned over each lyric line are essentially the same thing.

I'm contrasting that with placing only the chords, with spacing and symbols to show the timing, into the Chords field. I was thinking that would be better for people who need to know the timing of the chords, especially if they're not singing. They can still see the lyrics if they need them. If you're singing and playing and prefer the inline chords, and don't want to give up the space for the Chords field, you can hide the Chords field on your device.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:31:48 PM by arlo »

JerryK

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 04:35:38 PM »
I take your point.  It can certainly be done that way but it's definitely not my preference.  BH has kind of conditioned me/us to a linear layout, though, on paper,  I/we used to look back up the page to re-use, say, the chorus or Verse1.  Linear has become more familiar and convenient, since paper hasn't scrolled very well since Dead Sea times (haha).
I'm hoping that adding a comma delimiter/separator to your rather excellent chords code is not tooo complicated, so I hope it will go on your wish-list, as it is on mine.
Thanks for listening, as always
J

arlo

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 05:19:26 PM »
To be clear, I'm imagining that these chords are for someone who isn't singing, so they don't need to jump between the lyrics and chords. (Although in my experience playing and singing, showing the chords as a chart allows me to learn them much faster and then I don't need to keep referring back to them.)

Anyway, the problem with supporting multiple chords inside one set of brackets is that then the chord matching has to become looser and opens up the possibility of more errors. The app supports chord matching without brackets, but there are scenarios where that just doesn't work reliably, and then adding brackets is an option for getting it under control. If I loosened up the matching inside the brackets, then I'm afraid we'd lose that option.

Also, it feels like kind of a hack to put your instrumental section chords inside square brackets, which really are meant to position chords above lyrics. Then making freeform chord matching inside the brackets is like another hack on top of the first hack. It just feels like not a good road to go down. That's why I'm suggesting taking advantage of the Chords field, which is designed to show chords independently from lyrics, with open-ended matching and no need for the brackets.

I guess one other option is to remove the square brackets completely and position your chords manually above your lyrics. Then you can also place your chords-only sections into your lyrics and you won't have to use any brackets there, either.

JerryK

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 06:40:43 AM »
For me, square brackets are currently only for getting chords inside lyrics. As I said somewhere before, chords-over-lyrics baffles me completely if/when any line wraps because it doesn't fit in the current width.  Chords inline suits me much better.
The chords section, even if it's just for a solo or other music-only interlude, occupies space which I prefer to keep for lyrics.  And it will break the flow and make me/us think a bit harder.  However, do I understand your position (I do a lot of programming and data manipulation - SQL) but I'll leave the thought in the back of your mind for any time you re-visit that area.
I do like that I can put text - performance notes like Looper-Start or QUIET! or  BEWARE the extra BAR - in square brackets and have it disappear for those who don't want chords.
Thanks for listening
Jerry

WashedUp

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 05:11:54 AM »
Wonder if just typing it into the lyrics section and formatting the chords as needed would work for you?

Look away oh Lord
Look away
                Solo
E    |E  A |D    |A    |E    |E 
E    |E     |D    |A    |E    |A 

Checkin' it out in town
I'm a feelin lonely

arlo

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 11:25:37 AM »
Quote
Wonder if just typing it into the lyrics section and formatting the chords as needed would work for you?

This would only work if not using square brackets within the lyrics. If any square brackets are used, then the chord coloring and transposing functions ignore anything outside of the square brackets.

WashedUp

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2019, 12:13:26 PM »
Actually in my example, on my system,  the chords are still colored. And if not for others you could still highlight the text and select a color.

But yeah, the transpose function is another matter. I don't need that, and if I think I might I typically go with numbers.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 12:42:31 PM by WashedUp »

arlo

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 01:41:25 PM »
Quote
Actually in my example, on my system,  the chords are still colored. And if not for others you could still highlight the text and select a color.

That's because you don't have any chords in brackets. The original poster wants to put brackets around the chords in his lyrics, but not in the instrumental sections. But the coloring and transposing functions are all or nothing.

WashedUp

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 02:17:29 PM »
You're right. Sorry I lost the context of the original post.

JerryK

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Re: Split-bar chords?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 06:23:36 PM »
Nice try 'washed up' and thanks for making the effort.
I very much do sing and play, which is why I'm not so keen to put instrumental sections (or any chords really) outside the lyrics.  In-line, bracketed chords is almost all I use.
Yes, it could be said that I should learn everything properly before performing it but I add songs too often for that (open mic house/backing band) plus some dep work and more, and a day-job of course.  BH makes this lifestyle much better than with many pieces of paper.