MIDI and FCB1010 foot controller - Help with changing banks

[jeffwass]

I have been using SLM with a Blueboard and recently purchased a Behringer FCB1010 with the UNO 1.0.4 chip.  I am using SLM with Agile Partners Ampkit and have successfully implemented the next/previous song function in SLM using CC81/80.  I came back to my setup today to see if I could figure out some way to have SLM trigger Bank Selections 00-18 and Program Changes directly from SLM.

Before I could see if I could program the bank changes (I planned to work on the PCs afterwards), I found that SLM was somehow interfering with the PCs sent from the FCB1010 that had been working just fine two weeks ago, the last time I had messed with this!  I went round and round in circles trying to overcome the problem.  The only thing that seemed to work was to shut everything down and reboot, then reload my systems in the following order:
1-Redownload my SYSEX file to the FCB1010.
2-Reconnect to iPad and launch Ampkit.
3-Relaunch SLM.

I think I also crossed my toes and bit my tongue, but I am not sure in what order!

Now, I am back where I was 2 weeks ago after 4 hours of trying everything I could think of!

ARLO:
1- Do you have any idea why this error condition happened?  I would hate to run into this at a gig!
2- Is there a way to trigger Bank changes on the FCB1010 from SLM? 


[My goal is to use buttons #4/Prev Song cc81 and #5/Next Song cc80 and then send the appropriate Bank and PC changes through to FCB1010 so that the on/off status of effects is reflected on the board.

Right now, the buttons successfully select the correct song in SLM and that info is sent to Ampkit, but I have to manually select a PC using a button on the FCB to make sure that the buttons reflect the actual on/off status of the effects.] 

Where I get really confused in SLM is trying to figure out what the various options for MIDI actually mean and what they actually do.  At one point, I tried MIDI learn with the FCB, but got very unreliable results.

I am going to attach my current programming on the FCB.

-Jeff-

[arlo]

Are you saying that when Set List Maker is running, the Ampkit app doesn't respond to program changes sent from the Behringer footswitch?

Does Ampkit respond when it is in the foreground?

Can you confirm that the problem is related to Set List Maker by reproducing the problem, then force quitting Set List Maker and seeing if the problem went away?

Is there a way to trigger Bank changes on the FCB1010 from SLM?

You should be able to create MIDI presets that send bank change messages to the footswitch. However, the footswitch might not respond to a bank change if it is not followed by a program change ... it would depend on how exactly Behringer implemented that.

[jeffwass]

When I powered up and loaded Ampkit, Ampkit was not responding to the PCs from the FCB1010.  I hadn't made any changes in the last two weeks since working with this setup.  I tried force quitting both SLM and Ampkit as well as rebooting the FCB1010, but Ampkit was still not responding.  I tried unplugging cables, reboots and then all of a sudden, for no reason that I could see, everything worked again as normal.  With relief, I made a single alteration to the SYSEX file on the FCB just to change the expression pedal parameters.  After saving the SYSEX, I once again found Ampkit not responding, although the song the SLM midi preset that I had associated with the song picked the correct Ampkit setup when I clicked on the next song with my finger in SLM.  However, the cc81 sent from the FCB when I stepped on the switch did not toggle SLM to move to the next song.

I know this is confusing.  I am totally bamboozled.  It seems that something is happening that is causing SLM to get in the way of the midi transport back and forth with the FCB.

I then went through another hour or so of reboots until I successfully loaded everything in the order I mentioned before.  I am afraid to turn off my equipment now!

Second:
If I wanted to select Bank 01 and PC 12, how and where do I plug that into SLM?  In the Midi preset?  Should I put those commands on a different channel than number 1?  Right now, I have midi merge active and everything is on Channel 1.

Do I need to add separate MIDI devices on separate channels?  I am running Ampkit on an iPad2 (iOS 8.1), connected with a Behringer iStudio201 interface with midi in/out cables to the FCB1010.  When I look at device options in SLM, it sees three different devices:
1-Ampkit
2-Behringer iStudio201
3.Network Session 1 [Is this the FCB1010?].

[arlo]

If you restarte your device (or force-quit Set List Maker) and AmpKit still doesn't respond to MIDI messages, I don't think that is related to Set List Maker. My app can't influence the behavior of another app if it isn't running.

If I wanted to select Bank 01 and PC 12, how and where do I plug that into SLM?  In the Midi preset?

Yes, MIDI presets have fields for bank MSB, bank LSB and program numbers, which you can use in any combination.

Should I put those commands on a different channel than number 1?

You should put them on whatever channel the target device is configured to listen on.

Do I need to add separate MIDI devices on separate channels?

The list of MIDI devices in Set List Maker is mainly a way to label your channel numbers throughout the app. They also let you change the channel of a device globally without having to edit all your presets. But you don't need to use them. You would, however, want each of your devices to listen on a different channel so they don't respond to messages that aren't meant for them.

When I look at device options in SLM, it sees three different devices:

It sounds like those are the ports, not devices. A port can be a physical connection to a device, or a virtual connection that apps create to communicate with each other. You typically only need to specify ports if you have a lot of devices and run out of channels to use (each port has 16 channels). If you don't specify a port to send to, Set List Maker will send to all available ports, which is simplest to troubleshoot.

Network Session 1 [Is this the FCB1010?]

I'm not sure how to define that, but you can think of it as a catch-all for devices that don't expose their own ports. So yes, your footswitch is probably communicating through that port.

[jeffwass]

I ran into the situation again love times tonight where it seemed that SLM was somehow sending midi to both Ampkit and the FCB that required not only rebooting my iPad, but also loading a fresh copy of SYSEX to the FCB.  I have finally gotten everything back to square one where I am only sending cc81/80 from the FCB to SLM to turn pages.

I do have midi presets attached to my songs, but they seemed to be causing the confusion.  I have stripped the midi functions in SLM back to what seems like these midi presets should work, but they do not send the changes to Ampkit.

I am really confused as to what routes signals where.  I used to only have to deal with the midi presets.  In the more recent version of SLM you also have Midi Song Number and MSN LSB Program fields in the editable fields of the song.  Do they override the attached midi presets or work in conjunction with them?  I have tried experimenting, but that has only led to total confusion.

I am not an idiot, but midi makes me feel like one!  I spent the early 80's as a computer programmer and have a Ph.D., so you would think I could figure this stuff out.  I have read page after page of info on midi, but the practical outworking is just not clear to me.  The more options, the more confused I become.  I have watched your videos on midi, but you don't explain what you are doing, so it is just numbers in boxes with no rhyme or reason.  At this time, the midi functions in SLM are pretty useless for me.  I haven't had much of a problem figuring out how to get Ampkit to work with the FCB1010.  It is the SLM midi interface that I do not seem to understand at all.

So, I am back to the beginning:  I just use switches on the FCB to move between songs in SLM.  All the cool stuff I do separately on the FCB.  I am  using SLM to remind me what buttons to press to call up the appropriate patch.  It will be really helpful if there was some sort of written explanation of the various midi functions in SLM.

If anyone has successfully mated an FCB1010 (UNO or otherwise) with SLM, please send me any sample info you have.  My goal is to simply be able to have SLM send Bank changes and Program Changes directly to the FCB1010 so I can automate some of the tap dancing.

-Jeff-

[arlo]

In the more recent version of SLM you also have Midi Song Number and MSN LSB Program fields in the editable fields of the song.  Do they override the attached midi presets or work in conjunction with them?

The MIDI fields on the song edit page were always available, but they are hidden unless you enable the relevant options on the Settings > Remote Control page. They allow you to use incoming MIDI messages to jump to specific songs (not "next/previous"). Since you're not doing that, you can clear the MIDI System Messages > Song Select and MIDI Program Messages > Program Change settings from the Settings > Remote Control page, and disable Settings > Automation > Song Selection Actions > Send MIDI Song Number, and those fields will be hidden again.

I have watched your videos on midi, but you don't explain what you are doing, so it is just numbers in boxes with no rhyme or reason.

My tutorials generally assume that you know what you want to do with MIDI and they just show you how to do it specifically in my apps. My favorite general MIDI resources are listed here:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,656.0.html

It will be really helpful if there was some sort of written explanation of the various midi functions in SLM.

My documentation is split into two parts -- using outgoing MIDI to control other devices:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/sending_MIDI.html

And using incoming MIDI to control Set List Maker:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/remote_control.html

I can't quite tell from your posts what you are trying to do or what problem you are experiencing. It would be helpful to start over and include these three items: 1) what you want to do, 2) what you have tried so far to make that happen, 3) what is happening instead. For part 3, it's important to describe the problem, rather than saying that something "doesn't work" or is "messed up" or something along those lines. Sending a message from Help > Request Tech Support is also good, because then I can see your app settings.