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Author Topic: MIDI commands to remote control song selection in BandHelper from Yamaha PSR 970  (Read 4861 times)

appressman

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Hi Folks,
New user here.  I did scan the forum and find lots on getting Bandhelper to send MIDI to devices.  I want to go the other way.  My issue is we sometimes use MIDI music files so I need to embed a MIDI message in the MIDI file that will switch the song and not have that message appear anywhere else in the MIDI music file.  What would be the best message type to use.  Most players use MIDI files that are blank except for the remote control MIDI message they want to send to (in my case) their iPad.   

Is anyone already controlling song selection from a Yamaha PSR 970?  I'd love to hear from them.   Thanks.

arlo

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You want to play a MIDI music file on another device that includes a message to select a song in BandHelper? Your options are a song select message, which was designed exactly for this purpose, or a program change message, which doesn't have the 127-song limitation of the song select message.

appressman

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Thanks, Arlo. 
This didn't work in OnSong either so it must be me.   I've set a song to send 0|0|40 on channel 1 from my Yamaha keyboard.   I've put those numbers in the MIDI program number for the song in BandHelper.   The only entries in the MIDI file are: 
001:1:0000         1 - 004000040   Bank Select Msb=4
001:1:0000         1 - 004000040   Bank Select Lsb=0
001:1:0000         1 - 004000040   Program Change=40

In the MIDI Activity Log I get the following but no song switch.   Also, Band Helper crashes when switching from one MIDI file on my Yamaha PSR-970 to another.  This happens with either the wireless MIDI connection via CoreMIDI on the iPad to a Yamaha wireless MIDI interface or with the iRig wired MIDI interface.

Here's the log: - received data [B0, 65, 00]
- forwarded message 176 and value 101
- received data [B0, 64, 01]
- forwarded message 176 and value 100
- received data [B0, 06, 40]
- forwarded message 176 and value 6
- received data [B0, 26, 00]
- forwarded message 176 and value 38
- received data [B1, 65, 00]
- discarded data [B1, 65, 00] at channel filter
- received data [B1, 64, 01]
- discarded data [B1, 64, 01] at channel filter
- received data [B1, 06, 40]
- discarded data [B1, 06, 40] at channel filter
- received data [B1, 26, 00]
- discarded data [B1, 26, 00] at channel filter
- received data [B2, 65, 00]
- discarded data [B2, 65, 00] at channel filter
- received data [B2, 64, 01]
- discarded data [B2, 64, 01] at channel filter
- received data [B2, 06, 40]
- discarded data [B2, 06, 40] at channel filter
- received data [B2, 26, 00]
- discarded data [B2, 26, 00] at channel filter
- received data [F0, 43, 10, 4C, 02, 01, 00, 01, 21, F7]
- forwarded message 240 and value 67
- received data [F0, 43, 7E, 01, 00, 1A, 2C, 26, F7]
- forwarded message 240 and value 67


Anyone have any clue how (if?) I can proceed.  People are using Songbook with MIDI files like the one above with some success with the same hardware as me.  I'd really like to be able to use BandHelper.   Thanks.


arlo

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Based on your MIDI log, BandHelper isn't receiving any bank or program change messages. The messages starting with B0 are control changes on channel 1, but the controller numbers 101, 100, 6 and 38 are various things that aren't related to what you want to do. The B1 and B2 messages are the same messages on channels 2 and 3, and the F0-F7 messages are SysEx messages.

I don't know how these messages are encoded into your MIDI file, but I'd look at that again and make sure you have the right data there. I would also disconnect any additional equipment for now, to weed out any messages sent by other devices that will be distracting while testing this setup.

appressman

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Thanks Arlo.

One of my struggles is finding a good raw MIDI message editor...it appears stuff I don't want (and don't see) is in the files sometimes.


appressman

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Hi Folks.

I'm trying again to get my Yamaha PSR-970 to send MIDI to Band Helper.  Apparently that keyboard does not support "song select" messages.   I can't make sense of the options I see here: http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/remote_control.html  Though that page says I can use Controller messages the only choices in the IOS app under Remote Control for any of the Actions under controllers are 10 controller options CC64-69 or 80-83).  I don't even know how to select from any more than 10 songs using these settings.  I want to use MSB 0,LSB 32 and the Program change 1-127 but that's not an option?

It looks like Bandhelper will SEND out MIDI but not receive to select a song anything but SongSelect number despite what is says in the help page above.   Am I right?

Thanks.

arlo

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If you want to select specific songs with incoming program change messages, you will need to go to Settings > Remote Control and click MIDI Program Number and select the only option there. Then edit a song and you will see MSB, LSB and program number fields. You can enter unique values for each song and then send those values from your keyboard to select those songs.

appressman

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<<Settings > Remote Control and click MIDI Program Number>>

Thanks Arlo, but I don't have that option.  See screenshot.  On my iPad (a Version 3 running IOS 9.3.5) I don't see MIDI Program Number.  And my song's edit form just offers a single field for what would be the aforementioned song select code my keyboard doesn't provide.

Thoughts?

arlo

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Scroll down through the list of actions, almost all the way to the bottom, and you'll see MIDI Program Number.

appressman

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Thanks, Arlo.

I did find and set up the Program Change option to remote control Bandhelper.   With an empty MIDI file sent to BandHelper except for
001:1:0000       16 -    Bank Select Msb=0
001:1:0000       16 -    Bank Select Lsb=32
001:1:0000       16 - 000032038   Program Change=38

I sent the file to Bandhelper while in a set that included the song set to the above and got in the MIDI status monitor:
- received data [F0, 43, 10]
- received data [4C, 02, 01]
- received data [00, 01, 21]
- received data [F7]
- received data [F0, 43, 10]
- received data [4C, 02, 01]
- received data [20, 42, 10]
- received data [F7]
- received data [F0, 43, 7E]
- received data [01, 00, 1D]
- received data [08, 1E, F7]
- received data [F0, 43, 7E]
- received data [01, 00, 1D]
- received data [08, 1E, F7]

The MIDI file is attached in case you can see anything in there that may cause all this extra stuff.  I see in a dump of the file:
4d54 6864 0000 0006 0000 0001 0780 4d54
726b 0000 000e 00bf 0000 0020 2000 cf26
00ff 2f00

None of the above seems to correspond to the hex in the MIDI status log.  It's attached in case you can make sense of it.  Thanks.

arlo

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Those are SysEx messages, which won't do anything for you in this situation. I see -only- the SysEx messages, no bank or program change messages, in that activity log. So it seems that file doesn't contain what you think it does, or the keyboard is sending something other than the contents of that file. Sorry I don't have more info on that.

appressman

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Thanks.  I couldn't tell what they were.  As the file shows me the same thing in several different MIDI editors I think it's right.  It's probably the keyboard.  The only place I've heard of it working where a guy who uses a Tyros swears it will work with a PSR as well.  It does surprise me that Yamaha would spend the money to do a different MIDI process for the keyboard (the sound engines are the same) but perhaps that's it...or I just have a broken one.  I've had the same lack of luck with Onsong, they are just slower at getting back to me with ideas.

I appreciate your feedback.  I've spent enough hours on trying to make this work that, if I'd just spent practicing the tune, I wouldn't need the song on the iPad.   

arlo

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You could just select the song by clicking it on the iPad screen, or using a Next Song remote control action, right? Is that the only step you're trying to eliminate with the MIDI setup?