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Author Topic: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics  (Read 239 times)

shibetpc

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I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« on: May 27, 2018, 05:33:50 AM »
I've entered lyrics (with chords) into a the lyrics field.  I view the Active Songs setlist with Big Lyrics layout and choose a song with lyrics.  I enter the song and it displays lyrics, most of which are off the screen.  I can't seem to initiate the scrolling.  I read something about tapping the notes icon with the down arrow, but while I have a notes icon it doesn't have the scroll icon.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks :)

shibetpc

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2018, 07:39:07 AM »
Ok.  So it seems you need to have a duration in order for the scrolling to be applicable.  I'll answer my own question, so that anyone in the future can see.  However, next question is, how do I retroactively apply a standard duration to all songs.  I've got over 300...I'm not going to enter a duration for each.

Additionally, those durations vary significantly during performance as the show is highly interactive.  Is there no option to just have a + or - scroll speed.  If I need to make adjustments during a performance, trying to figure out the algorithm for duration/font size seems much more complicated than a 'slow-it-down' or 'speed-it-up' button :)  thoughts? thx

arlo

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2018, 10:42:58 AM »
You can change Settings > General Settings > Defaults > Song Duration and that will be applied to any new set lists you create. You can then override it for particular set lists on the set list details edit page if needed.

Please see also this video, which should answer your questions:

https://youtu.be/7Z8s64BYWGo

shibetpc

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 04:35:12 AM »
You can change Settings > General Settings > Defaults > Song Duration and that will be applied to any new set lists you create. You can then override it for particular set lists on the set list details edit page if needed.

Please see also this video, which should answer your questions:

https://youtu.be/7Z8s64BYWGo

Ok, thanks.  I'll have a watch.   But that brings up another question/scenario.

So I don't really use setlists in the conventional sense.  We play to the crowd in front of us, and we pull from a repertoire of several hundred songs.  Id say over the course of 1000 gigs, I don't think I've used a structured setlist twice.  Instead, what is important is being able to access a list of material to pull from (sometimes grouped by genre depending on the gig), and bring up lyrics/chords quickly, and be able to scroll them while performing.

:: Ideally, when I enter <<SONGS>>, I could access the lyrics/chord layout directly from there.  No setlist required.  Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't seem to be the case.  ( I would love a button that next to the title that enters the lyric/chord view of my choice)
:: If I have to use setlist, I have to one by one add 300+ songs and then ensure that each new song we add gets manually added to that setlist of 'all the songs'.  Failure to do so means that song will get overlooked in future gigs.  We add material even during a gig, so we are often under pressure and things get missed.  Seems a lot of maintenance just to access a list of all the songs.
:: If I use smartlist, I don't seem to be able to enter a default duration, so nothing scrolls.

What do you think the best approach is there to achieve the desired setup?

Also, just a side note on the scroll/duration issue:
I really like the product. You've done a great job and I'm looking forward to making it the go to tool at my gigs :) However, the scroll issue seems to pop up a considerable amount in the search, and seems to be a barrier to quick entry for some.  I think that is because there doesn't seem to be any logical relationship between the duration of the song, and whether or not , and how fast/slow, it scrolls on the page.  This is purely an software engineering concern that from a UX perspective should be invisible to the user.  I've used other apps (greatly inferior to this one in most every other way) that had a simple scroll speed + and -, and whose value was stored.  Simple and effective.  Changed as needed.  If I played a song faster, I increased. Decreased if slow, etc.  I'm not sure what is gained by forcing the scrolling capability and parameters to the duration of the song, but it seems only to add complexity and unnecessary maintenance of data.  It occurs to me that it might have something to do with its reliance on the layouts, which seems to use fixed values for dimensions, and hence don't translate well across devices.  Could the issue be solved by making the layouts dimensions relative, which should fix cross device layout compatibility and the need to have layout dependent scrolling? 

Hope you don't take offence to my suggestion.  I only want to help improve the product in a manner that suits my own selfish needs  ;D

If you've read this far, you're a legend :)
Thanks

arlo

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 10:32:13 AM »
"I don't really use setlists in the conventional sense"

Smart lists are most likely the best option, but see also "HOW CAN I ADD OR REARRANGE MY SONGS WHILE PERFORMING A SET LIST?" in the FAQ:

http://www.bandhelper.com/support/FAQ.html

I was going to say that smart lists will use the default song duration from the settings, but I just checked and they don't. I'm not sure why not, and I can't think of any reason they shouldn't, so I'll add that to my to do list for the next release.

"I'm not sure what is gained by forcing the scrolling capability and parameters to the duration of the song"

You don't want the speed to be a constant because then if you resize the text, you have to also readjust the speed. The current setup lets you resize the text and the speed will adjust automatically to accommodate the new size. It also allows different band members to use a different text size without everyone having to set different scroll speeds. If you are often playing the song with different durations, because of different tempos, or different arrangements, then I recommend trying the other options in the video linked above.

"Making the layouts dimensions relative, which should fix cross device layout compatibility"

Since different devices have different aspect ratios, scaling layouts to different screens would require either stretching the interface elements, or leaving some of the width or height unused. Even if all screens had the same aspect ratio, scaling wouldn't be a good use of space. Imagine a phone layout with just a couple buttons scaled up to a tablet; those buttons would be larger than necessary and it would be better to add some more buttons instead. So I think it's better to have layouts that are specific to each screen size to make the best use of each device.

shibetpc

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 09:27:19 AM »
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I was going to say that smart lists will use the default song duration from the settings, but I just checked and they don't. I'm not sure why not, and I can't think of any reason they shouldn't, so I'll add that to my to do list for the next release.

That would go a huge way to getting me up and running.  Thank you! I look forward to utilizing that.

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You don't want the speed to be a constant because then if you resize the text, you have to also readjust the speed. The current setup lets you resize the text and the speed will adjust automatically to accommodate the new size. It also allows different band members to use a different text size without everyone having to set different scroll speeds. If you are often playing the song with different durations, because of different tempos, or different arrangements, then I recommend trying the other options in the video linked above.

Automation is great, but only if it makes the process easier overall.  I understand that current implementation solves some downstream problems, but those issues seem like minutiae compared to the hours of massaging data just to use the basic function of scrolling. Add to that the complexity of having to update the duration of the song to get it to scroll faster or slower in a live environment. I don't understand how that's easier than than just increasing or decreasing scroll speed.  This is my second attempt at using BandHelper over the course of a year, and I haven't been able to introduce it into the live environment because the essential scrolling function hasn't been feasible without considerable effort.  I am hopeful however that the addition of a standard duration of a SmartList will go to getting me started.  But I'll relentlessly stand behind the idea that an easier solution would be to just institute scrolling speed with + or -  :D

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Since different devices have different aspect ratios, scaling layouts to different screens would require either stretching the interface elements, or leaving some of the width or height unused. Even if all screens had the same aspect ratio, scaling wouldn't be a good use of space. Imagine a phone layout with just a couple buttons scaled up to a tablet; those buttons would be larger than necessary and it would be better to add some more buttons instead. So I think it's better to have layouts that are specific to each screen size to make the best use of each device.

Again here, I'll disagree.  Virtually every app in the market has this issue addressed with relative layouts and scaling.  Its nearly universal. Mixer software, other lyric apps, etc.  People are accustomed to the ease of it. I get what you're trying to address, but it seems to increase complexity of use and cause more issues than solve them.  I opened the app on my phone, then on my tablet, and my layouts are filled with a series of semi-functioning layouts depending on the device and orientation I'm using.   Scaling to me seems the obvious solution.

Thanks for listening again.  I'm really not trying to be contrary.  I just feel feedback is an important part of the cycle and would love to see some of these suggestions make it into future iterations of this really great platform.

arlo

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 10:47:51 AM »
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Add to that the complexity of having to update the duration of the song to get it to scroll faster or slower in a live environment. I don't understand how that's easier than than just increasing or decreasing scroll speed.

The goal is to do more setup before the performance so you can have less interaction with the app during the performance. People often change their text sizes, and different band members often use different text sizes from each other. The current setup automatically adapts to these differences. In most cases, if you enter an accurate song duration, you don't have to do anything to adjust the speed. But if the lyrics are distributed unevenly through the song -- like a song where all the lyrics are in the first half, and then the second half is all instrumental -- or if you change the arrangement on the fly by adding solos or repeating sections -- the app has options to accommodate that. Did you watch the video?

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Again here, I'll disagree.  Virtually every app in the market has this issue addressed with relative layouts and scaling.  Its nearly universal. Mixer software, other lyric apps, etc.

Those apps don't offer custom layouts. I believe that if I'm going to offer custom layouts, they might as well be truly custom to each screen, not a scaled version of something designed for a different screen. If you don't care to do that level of customization, you can just use one of the default layouts that come pre-installed. When you view a set list or smart list, the app will only show you the layouts that match your current screen size and orientation, so you don't have to choose from the whole list for all your devices.

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I'm really not trying to be contrary.  I just feel feedback is an important part of the cycle and would love to see some of these suggestions make it into future iterations of this really great platform.

And I always welcome feedback, but keep in mind that core app functions that have been in place for years and are proven to work well for most users are less likely to change than recently added or prospective features. I might still enhance and improve those features, but it's unlikely I would reverse the design philosophy behind them.

arlo

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Re: I can't seem to simply scroll lyrics
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2018, 04:10:30 AM »
In the new app version released today, smart lists will use the default song duration from Settings > General Settings for the purpose of auto-scrolling songs that don't have a specific duration set.