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MIDI preset and/or automation in PAUSEs

Started by avdb, August 22, 2022, 07:39:48 AM

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avdb

Hi there,

I am looking for a possibility to trigger MIDI presets and/or automation once a PAUSE is reached in the setlist
Use-cases:
- if a PAUSE is reached during performance, specific task may be required (most simple ones like sending a midi preset for a presentation-scene for lightning, muting other mikes during presentation, or muting guitar inputs during instrument changes. Alternatively, allow the LAYOIUT MIDI also to be loaded when a PAUSE is loaded (exactly the same behaviour as with songs)
At this point I am archieving this by adding an empty song before each PAUSE in the setlist, which only contains a minimal automation track, just triggering the required MIDI presets.
And eventhough this works, the downside of this workaround is some added loading time before the text in the PAUSE is shown. As my automation only takes half a second or so, the total delay before the PAUSE txt actually is shown on the screen is may be just a second, but it is annoying, Besides that, my Setlest is clutted with ÁNNOUNCE songs for each pause...

Is anyone aware of a more elegant way of achieving this??
(no, sending midi presets at the end of the song does not work as setlists tend to change. Just adding it to the current way of LAYOUT midi does not work either (muting/lightscenes) as it needs to happen at specific places in the setlist)

Any input is welcome

arlo

Do you want to send the same MIDI presets for each pause, or different ones for different pauses?

avdb

Hi Arlo, the ability to send different presets for the different PAUSES would be ideal, as this would allow to trigger different light-scenes and or mutes for the different Pauses.
As I wrote earlier, I am accomplishing these tasks right now by adding empty songs before a pause with an ultra-short 1 sec automation track, sending the various midi presets as required and immediately moving on to the PAUSE with its accompanying notes.
This has proven to work reliably, albeit that 1) obviously,  loading of the PAUSE notes is delayed by the length of the automation track, and b) a rather cluttered setlist (see attached)

arlo

It looks like in some cases you've set up pauses that are tied to specific songs -- maybe intros for those songs. In that case, I'd recommend putting that info into the Notes field for the song, or a custom field for the song. Then you don't always have to add the song and its accompanying pause to a set list, and if you rearrange the set list you don't have to move both the song and the accompanying pause.

Then you could attach those song-specific MIDI presets to the songs instead of to accompanying pauses. Would that eliminate the need to have different presets attached to different pauses?

avdb

For the specific example that I made a screenshot, in principle you are right Arlo, though this would only work if setlists and pauses would always be identical, and they are not.
Especially in situations where one makes extensive use of "continues play' in the playlist. One gig several songs are played in immediate continued sequence, some gigs they are not.
That would mean at least 2 versions of each song to accommodate.

The feature request for having Pauses being able to have an automation track, or to automatically trigger midi presets would allow more flexible use and provide an uncluttered setlist (appreciated by the other band members)

But just to make it clear, this is not a mission-critical topic. I just think it may make life for some a bit easier :-)

regards,
Arie

arlo

QuoteFor the specific example that I made a screenshot, in principle you are right Arlo, though this would only work if setlists and pauses would always be identical, and they are not.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Storing all the info related to a song within the song itself rather than splitting it between the song and a pause should be an advantage when you want to make a different set list, not a disadvantage.

QuoteEspecially in situations where one makes extensive use of "continues play' in the playlist. One gig several songs are played in immediate continued sequence, some gigs they are not.

I'm not sure how this relates to the original question, either. The way to turn "continuous play" on and off is to have two layouts, one with the necessary settings for that and one without (or you could toggle one or both of the two layout settings that are needed for this).

Anyway, my wish list already contains requests to make pauses support documents, videos, MIDI presets and saved text sizes -- basically, things a song can do -- so it's possible in the future I might somehow make pauses a subclass of songs. Following that principle, you could start using songs as pauses now, instead of using both a song and a pause.

What is concerning me about your request is the idea of having pauses that contain song-specific info and are always placed before with specific songs. That makes songs and set lists harder to edit, so I would look for ways to place all the song-specific info within the song itself, so the pauses (whether they are literal pauses or songs you are using as pauses) can go into your set list without regard for what songs comes after them.

avdb

Hi Arlo,
sorry if I confused you....

The only point I was tryng to make: Songs may not always require a pause (for instance for an anoucncement). this depends on the gig/evening. So for that reason, storing "Pause'settings with the song is less ideal.

And just to clarify, I indeed do use the ├žontinues play function as provided in the layout a lot. In fact, in our setup we drive 50-60% of the setlist 'non-stop"and only put pauses in place where required (and these pauses may very per gig)

Hope this clafifies

Arie

arlo

Here are two examples of how I think the data would ideally be set up:

1) You have a pause named "introduce the band," and you want to trigger a special lighting scene whenever you do that. It would make sense to include the corresponding MIDI presets within that pause.

2) You have ideas for an introduction for a particular song and you want to keep your notes for that in the app. It is best to put those in that song, not in a pause that you then have to remember to place before that song. Maybe in some performances you don't want to verbally introduce that song, which is fine; you can simply ignore your notes in that case. If you are using song completion actions to move through songs automatically, you could still put a pause before that song to stop the auto-play there, but that would be a generic pause that could go anywhere, not a special pause that only goes before this song. Basically you want to have items that are independent and self-contained, not split your info across multiple items that must then be manually kept together.

arlo

Quote from: avdb on August 23, 2022, 12:09:34 AM
the ability to send different presets for the different PAUSES would be ideal, as this would allow to trigger different light-scenes and or mutes for the different Pauses.

Approximately how many different pause scenes would you want to have?

arlo

In today's version 2024-04-13 release, you can turn on Settings > Advanced > Show Song Buttons on Breaks and Pauses. Then edit a MIDI preset and select the Pinned To All Pauses option. Then when you view any pause, that MIDI preset will be available. If you select this option for multiple presets, they will appear in alphabetical order in the pauses. The presets will not send automatically when you reach a pause, but you can send them from the MIDI button or from an app control action like Settings > App Control > Actions > Send Pinned Presets = Layout Actions > Song Selection.

You cannot pin different presets to different pauses -- that wasn't needed for most of the people who requested this, and it would have made the setup much more complicated -- but you can send a specific preset from among the pinned presets if you select it manually using the MIDI buttons or the Send Pinned Preset 1-10 app control actions.

avdb

Hi Arlo,

I am experimenting with this new feature but think I may not quite understand the solution and may need some assistance. For me, the recent changes, including the moving of the layout actions and MIDI actions, have been causing me some serious headaches during performances. Most likely, this is because I seem to misunderstand.

But back to the topic: I followed your directions and attached MIDI presets to pinned presets, which indeed now show correctly in the pause. However, if I understand the implementation and your proposed course of action of sending pinned MIDI presets upon song selection, wouldn't that mean that pinned MIDI presets are sent with every selection of a song or a pause, and not just during the pauses? If the position of the pinned MIDI presets is then also different between the pauses and songs, doesn't this create more confusion?

Again, it may very well be that I am completely missing the vision behind these changes and may need some additional help here.

Thank you!

Best regards,
arie

arlo

QuoteI followed your directions and attached MIDI presets to pinned presets

Hopefully you mean you selected the Pinned To All Pauses option for a MIDI preset. This setup does not require attaching presets to other presets.

Quotewouldn't that mean that pinned MIDI presets are sent with every selection of a song or a pause, and not just during the pauses

No, because Pinned To All Pauses and Pinned To All Songs are separate options. If you want to access a preset from pauses, you can use the first option; if you want to access a preset from songs, you can use the second option; and if you want to access a preset from songs or pauses, you can use both options.