Before posting, please read: When to use this forum, when to submit a help ticket

Author Topic: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks  (Read 5020 times)

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« on: September 06, 2022, 08:01:27 pm »
I'm currently using a DAW (digital performer, MacBook Pro) to play backing tracks through a Motu Ultralite mk 4, sent to mains and in-ear monitors.  I send a click track out a different channel and route only through in the monitors. 

I'd like export my backing tracks and have Band Helper play them live, eliminating my MacBook from my live setup.  But I don't know what to do about the click track.  Has anyone tried this and been successful?

Thanks for any info.

Steve

arlo

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
  • Karma: +146/-3
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 09:40:18 am »
Using the Settings > Audio & MIDI > Multi-Route Audio setting and corresponding output channel assignments, BandHelper can play a backing track and its own tempo click sound simultaneously through separate outputs, or adding the Settings > Audio & MIDI > Play First Two Recordings Together setting, it can play a backing track and a custom click track simultaneously through separate outputs.

It can't send the backing track and click track to one output and the only the click track to another output, but you could handle that on your mixer.

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2022, 03:31:06 pm »
Arlo:

I've now switched my audio interface to a simple Focusrite 4i4 and both the iPad and BandHelper recognize it.  I'm attempting to send recording 1 out channels 1 & 2 and recording 2 (click) out channel 3 (and 4).  When I have Play First Two Recordings Together ON, and Multi-Route Audio OFF, it plays both songs together as expected.  But when I have Play First Two Recordings Together ON, and Multi-Route Audio ON, mapping per the attached screenshot, I only get recording 1 to play.  Is that expected?  What am I doing wrong?

arlo

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
  • Karma: +146/-3
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2022, 05:12:00 pm »
What happens if you switch it around so the click goes to channels 1-2 and the backing track goes to channels 3-4?

Or if you send one side of the click to channel 1 and one side of the backing track to channel 2?

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2022, 07:20:37 am »
What happens if you switch it around so the click goes to channels 1-2 and the backing track goes to channels 3-4?

Switching the click to channel 1-2 and backing track to channels 3-4:  Result: Click plays through channels 1-2, backing track does not play at all.

Or if you send one side of the click to channel 1 and one side of the backing track to channel 2?

Sending backing track through channel 1 left, sending click through channel 2 right:  Result:  Click plays in both speakers, backing track plays in both speakers. 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 07:21:11 am by stevesnell »

arlo

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
  • Karma: +146/-3
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2022, 07:43:46 am »
First, do you have cables connecting the four outputs on the back of the Scarlett to four inputs on a mixer, or how else are you listening to this?

Second, it looks like you have mapped four BandHelper outputs to the Scarlett's four USB inputs, but then you would need to map those to the Scarlett outputs within Scarlett's setup software. Here's the manual:

https://fael-downloads-prod.focusrite.com/customer/prod/downloads/focusrite_control_scarlett_3rd_gen_user_guide_v2.1.pdf

It looks like you can map each of the four hardware inputs on the Scarlett to the four outputs. Can you send a screen shot showing that setup?

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2022, 10:24:48 am »
I can confirm that the Scarlett is working.  Since there is no IOS interface for the Scarlett, I'm showing you how the interface is configured when hooked up to my MacBook Pro, running Digital Performer, mapping the click to 3-4 and the Backing Tracks to 1-2.  This setup works fine.  I'm trying to replicate this exact setup on my iPad so I can eliminate the MacBook pro completely from my live performance setup.

Pathing

Current: MacBook Pro running Digital Performer > Scarlett 4i4 (ch 1-2 Backing Tracks, ch 3-4 click)> Mixer > Front of house/In ear system

Desired: iPad Pro running BandHelper [recording 1 (Backing Track) and recording 2 (Click Track) > Scarlett 4i4 (ch 1-2 Backing Track, ch 3-4 click)> Mixer > Front of house/In ear system

Thanks for the help
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 11:27:02 am by stevesnell »

arlo

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
  • Karma: +146/-3
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2022, 01:17:37 pm »
Does the Scarlett interface save its routing settings? If you quit the Focusrite Control app, unplug the Scarlett from your Mac, and plug it back in, does it still use your mappings, or do you have to reopen the Focusrite Control app?

I have a Tascam interface that resets to its default settings and I have to open its control panel on my Mac every time I use it to reload my custom settings. Maybe something similar is happening here.

This page has a warning at the bottom about needing to set up the routing from your computer, but doesn't say what will happen to those routings if you then switch it to an iPad:

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115005430409-Can-I-use-my-bus-powered-Scarlett-with-an-iPad-Lightning-port-

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2022, 01:41:55 pm »
I ran 3 tests...

1) Baseline - Scarlett working with Mac and Digital Performer
2) Quit Focusrite control, unplugged Scarlett from Mac (powered down Scarlette for 2 mins).  Plugged back in to Mac, launched Focusrite control relaunched Digital Performer, working as expected
3) Unplugged from Mac, plugged into iPad, ran Bandhelper without changing any configurations.  Unplugged from iPad Launched Focusrite control, relaunched Digital Performer, working as expected

Screen shots from all three states show no change in configuration between tests (same as previously uploaded screen shot).

arlo

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
  • Karma: +146/-3
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2022, 01:50:16 pm »
Thanks. I've been tracking USB audio interfaces that work and don't work here:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,2812.msg12108.html#msg12108

It's hard to know what's wrong without having access to one. I'm considering ordering a Scarlett 4i4 like yours to see if I can make it work.

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2022, 03:21:35 pm »
I'll buy another for backup and send it to you if you will troubleshoot.  Let me know where to send it.  This is a classic use case and one I'm sure other people would benefit from.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 03:42:58 pm by stevesnell »

arlo

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5860
  • Karma: +146/-3
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2022, 12:47:45 pm »
Thanks for sending me a Scarlett 4-4 to test with! This is a new unit, and I opened it and connected it to an iPad Pro 10.5" (2017) via a powered USB hub. I didn't connect it to a Mac first or make any attempt to change the default settings in the unit.

In BandHelper, I have Play First Two Recordings Together and Multi-Route Audio turned on, with Recording 1 L/R mapped to Scarlett USB 1-2 and Recording 2 L/R mapped to Scarlett USB 3-4, just like you showed in your screen shot.

When I clicked the recording button for a song with two recordings attached, recording 1 played through the line out 1-2 jacks and recording 2 played through the line out 3-4 jacks. So this seems to be working as expected without changing any settings. (Only recording 2 played through the Scarlett headphone jack, but I think that's how it is designed to work, based on the graphics in the Focusrite Control app.)

Next, I connected the Scarlett to my Mac via a direct USB cable and installed the Focusrite Control Mac app so I could look at the default settings and compare them to yours. When I first opened the Focusrite Control app, I got an alert about being in Quick Start mode and clicked OK to restart (screen shot attached). Then the settings appeared, with Monitor Outputs 1-2 and Line Outputs 3-4 both set to "Custom Mix" and the custom mix set to Software Playback 1-2 for both (screen shot attached). Without changing any settings, I then reconnected the Scarlett to the iPad and tried again with the same iPad settings, and then only recording 1 played through all outputs. That matches what I would expect the new settings to do.

I reconnected to my Mac and, leaving both pairs of outputs on Custom Mix, changed the Software Playback of outputs 3-4 to Playback 3-4, then reconnected to the iPad and then only recording 2 played through all outputs. It turns out the custom mix is shared by both pairs of outputs, so changing the custom mix for Outputs 3-4 to Playback 3-4 also changed the custom mix for Outputs 1-2 to Playback 3-4. So if you need to use a custom mix, you can only use it for one pair of outputs.

Then I reconnected to my Mac and changed Monitor Outputs 1-2 to Playback 1-2 and Line Outputs 3-4 to Playback 3-4 and Loopback to Analogue 1-2, just like in your screen shot, then reconnected to the iPad and everything played as expected again (screen shot attached).

So we've learned a few things:

- Settings changed in the Mac app are indeed saved and carry over to iPad use
- The jacks labeled Line Outputs 1-2 on the Scarlett hardware are labeled Monitor Outputs 1-2 in the Focusrite Control app
- The headphone jack on the Scarlett hardware only plays whatever is routed to Outputs 3-4 (I think)
- The out-of-the-box default settings will do what we want
- The updated settings after running the Focusrite Control app for the first time will not do what we want
- At that point, changing the custom mix for outputs 3-4 will not do what we want
- Changing the outputs for 1-2 and 3-4 to Playback 1-2 and 3-4 will do what we want

What I don't know is how we seem to have ended up at the same settings, but mine works as expected and yours doesn't. After having done various tests, can you make sure your BandHelper and Focusrite settings match what I've described here?

Also, you included a screen shot of a "Bundles" window, but I don't see that in the Focusrite Control app. Is that from a different app?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 12:48:59 pm by arlo »

stevesnell

  • Regular Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Backing Tracks and Click Tracks
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2022, 02:09:29 pm »
Problem solved.  I plugged the Scarlett into the Mac and did a factory reset.  As you recommended, I set the Monitor Outputs 1-2 to Playback 1-2 and Line Outputs 3-4 to Playback 3-4 and Loopback to Analogue 1-2 and now I'm getting the backing track playing through Outputs 1-2 and the click through Outputs 3-4.  Thank you!