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Author Topic: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.  (Read 9895 times)

Moon Dog

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Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« on: February 18, 2014, 08:30:29 PM »
ARLO and other SLM Users.

Just purchased the Track Automation module and its very cool.
Love the timing capabilities.
I was hoping as I had the Track Automation on Record,  I was sending MIDI messages to SLM (From my Voice Live 3 unit) they would be captured in the Track Automation...but no love.

To insure my MIDI was communicating with SLM I navigated to the Preset, got into the RAW MIDI data window and then hit the LEARN MIDI button.
All the buttons I pushed on my Voice Live 3 were absolutely understood by SLM and I now know what the MIDA data is for the various functions I want to happen at specific times in the song.

So the question remains....I need to send this MIDI Data to my VOICE LIVE 3 unit at specific times during the song. Can this be done via Midi messages in the RAW Data area of the preset (This would be Easiest) or as parts/commands of the Automation Track using the timing capabilities there?

Either of these solutions would work if possible.   

HELP.
Thank You Very Much.

Moon Dog

arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 04:09:32 AM »
You would use a combination of MIDI presets and automation tracks. After you set up your MIDI presets (with the MIDI Learn command if you wish), you can then create an automation track to trigger those presets at the desired times and send your raw MIDI data back out. Instructions for recording and playing automation tracks are here:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/using_on_stage.html

Does that answer your question?

Moon Dog

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 08:25:37 AM »
Arlo.
Thank you so much for taking time to respond to my question.
I see how this can leverage my existing setup and also how I can use Track Automation.

I did spend many hours last night working with Automation and had some challenges.
1. In order to access the multiple Midi buttons to trigger that code at specific times I can't be in Document View so I can follow the lyrics which is a little tricky.
2. If I don't get the timing exactly correct I know how to go in and adjust the timing....seems even a small change takes time holding down on the - / + (It would be cool if I could copy and paste and or use a txt file to populate this automation.....
3. Some of my songs have 6 Presets and harmony on/off which means I would need access to 12 MIDI Presets in a single song. My guess is I can include 12 Presets in the list....I just would not know how to access them in the automation record function?

I will be able to test many of my songs with the advice that you have given me and I will let you know how that goes.
Thanks for an amazing App.....

Jeff

Moon Dog

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2014, 10:13:17 AM »
Arlo.

I added the RAW MIDI data, for a Given Preset. The RAW DATA reflects a Pedal press to Turn on Harmony (Voice Live 3).
The Hex Code is: b0 6e 40

So I have two Presets on LSM both pointing to the same Preset on the Voice Live 3 but one does not include the Raw Data (Harmony Off) and one does include the RAW DATA (Harmony On).

I recorded the Automation track that all went well.

Upon Playback, when it triggers the Harmony on Preset (with the Raw Data) the Pedals Flash (light associated with pedal Press) but it doesn't stay latched on?
Its almost as if it is being interpreted as momentary press.

Any Thoughts?

I'll keep trying.

Thanks for any help.

Jeff
 

Moon Dog

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2014, 09:24:34 PM »
Latest Update.

So on the Voice Live 3 I turned off SuSSex.
I put the MIDI CC HEX RAW Data in its own Preset...
Using the nested Presets I am able to now:
Change programs > Turn Harmony On or OFF

What I can't do is go to a second step within a preset. On Voice Live 3 for each preset you can have up to 10 STEPS each step is basically like another preset
The code I have been trying that does not work is:
b0 73 02 (to go to step two)

Thoughts?

Moon Dog

 

arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2014, 09:34:33 PM »
Quote
1. In order to access the multiple Midi buttons to trigger that code at specific times I can't be in Document View so I can follow the lyrics which is a little tricky.
If you turn your device to landscape orientation, you can view the set list on the left and the document on the right. You can also tap and hold the MIDI icon to show a list of all the presets in a popup window.
Quote
2. If I don't get the timing exactly correct I know how to go in and adjust the timing....seems even a small change takes time holding down on the - / +
Yes, I would like to add the option to type in a value directly, but it's tricky.
Quote
3. Some of my songs have 6 Presets and harmony on/off which means I would need access to 12 MIDI Presets in a single song. My guess is I can include 12 Presets in the list....I just would not know how to access them in the automation record function?
Just tap and hold the MIDI icon to see the list.
Quote
What I can't do is go to a second step within a preset. On Voice Live 3 for each preset you can have up to 10 STEPS each step is basically like another preset
I checked the VoiceLive manual and it looks like you're sending the right MIDI messages, but I don't have any experience with that hardware to know what else you would have to do. You might have to check with TC Helicon for questions about that specifically.

Moon Dog

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 11:15:40 PM »
Thanks ARLO that gives me the ability to automate all my songs....Just have to be able to get that MIDI list up fast to record the changes between presets.
Really appreciate the information.
When I figure this step thing out I'll share it on the forum.

Moon Dog.

arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 11:38:39 PM »
Quote
Thanks ARLO that gives me the ability to automate all my songs....Just have to be able to get that MIDI list up fast to record the changes between presets.

Yes ... but I assume that while you record an automation track, you're not doing your full performance, so you have some time to get ready for each action at least a few seconds in advance.

Also, you can record the track in a few passes if that helps, and Set List Maker will merge all your recorded actions together. So you could do one pass where you record the MIDI changes and another pass where you record lyric scrolling.

Moon Dog

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 05:29:07 PM »
Those are all helpful tips and I will be able to make this work...Thanks Arlo.

Does SLM default to MIDI CC Channel 1?

My Voice Live 3 allows me to change the channel for CC from 1 to 16.

Moon Dog.

arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 05:48:20 PM »
The CC channel number is part of the CC message, so there is no default -- it's completely determined by the MIDI data you enter.

Moon Dog

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2014, 05:52:14 PM »
Thanks arlo.

I spent quite a bit of time working with Track Automation.
First I want to compliment you Arlo, this is some amazing capability. Since this is the initial release, my guess is it will only get better with subsequent releases.
My hats off to you sir.

After some analysis this is what I determined.
You can do a record "Over Dub" on an automation track....BUT, there a few things to recognize:
1. IF you previously recorded instructions to "Play the Backing Track" when you hit record a subsequent time, it does not play what was previously automated, like play the backing track.
2. Therefore to get a backing track to play when overdubbing automation you have to hit play again. Of course this results in a second play the backing track command.
3. Here is the tricky part, whenever you overdub and hit play again the new Midi Presets are relative in time to the second or third or whatever time you hit play the backing track.
4. This means that if you had previously recorded midi commands and new midi commands they will be out of sync with the banking track since you only want one automation to say play backing track.
5. So how I was able to get everything to sync is, when you do an automation re-record, go through as much as you want to record and then edit the automation file. You will see you have two lines to play the recording (backing track). Note the difference in the time. Now you have to go in and subtract the amount of time for each event you have in there so the commands will sync with the original command to play the recording.

I hope this makes sense...it was not easy to figure out but it works. Automation is the most powerful part of Set List Maker at this time and I am sure it will be improved over time.

Arlo if there is a preference to hit play/record simultaneously that would be awesome. I can't find it.

Moon Dog 



arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2014, 08:25:58 PM »
Hmm, I don't think I considered whether your currently recorded automation should play while you record new automation ... I guess it probably should, and that would make your setup easier, right? I'll make a note to look further into that.

arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2014, 12:42:32 PM »
In version 4.0, previously recorded automation events will play back while you're "overdubbing" new events. You can see how it works in this demo video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A2YZZ4wzi4

Pongo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2014, 01:05:12 PM »
Hi Arlo,

I've watched your latest video tutorials and can't wait to upgrade to SLM 4!

I do have a question, regarding the automation feature:

In the video, you start by tapping on the automation icon to start the recording of the automation...and then you start the playback of your audio file (recording) while capturing the automation events. When you add an overdub, the playback of your backing track starts automatically, when you select `record' (to overdub) on the automation icon. This makes perfect sense, but...in my setup, the playback of my backing track starts automatically as soon as I tap `record' on the automation icon the very first time (before any automation has been recorded). Is that normal? If not, could this be the source of my plethora of automation overdub issues that I've burdened you with over the last couple of months?!?!

I'm now thinking that perhaps the automation section in SLM 3.xx was somehow getting `confused' with the audio recording automatically starting when entering my first automation data.

Thanks again and I look forward to Sunday!


arlo

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Re: Sending MIDI (RAW or ?) using Timing and the Automation Track.
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 09:10:57 PM »
2. If I don't get the timing exactly correct I know how to go in and adjust the timing....seems even a small change takes time holding down on the - / + (It would be cool if I could copy and paste and or use a txt file to populate this automation.....

In the upcoming version 4.1, you will be able to edit the time of an automation event in seconds or hundredths of a second. More info is here:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/support/release_notes.html
http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,848.0.html