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Author Topic: Alternate way to enter MIDI automation, other than from the display window?  (Read 7128 times)

Pongo

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I'm attempting to create an automation track to send MIDI program changes to an external device (TC Helicon VL2) from SLM.

I know that item 18 on the Sending MIDI tutorial details how to trigger patch changes as the song is playing, but is it possible to use an external sequencer to do the same thing?

I have created the presets that I need to use for a song, and have associated them with the song. I would like to simply have my sequencer (Korg Triton Extreme, that is connected to SLM via the iRig MIDI device) play the sequence and have the automation capture the patch changes as the sequence plays. This works perfectly when I have my keyboard connected to the VL2 directly, so I know that the data and timing are both correct. This way, I would only need to `play with', adjusting the start of the song itself in SLM, rather than `chasing' every midi event to match the song.

The song was recorded (and created as a stereo mp3) directly from the sequence, so there will not be variation in the overall duration...in theory.

Thanks,
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 12:21:35 PM by Pongo »

arlo

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Set List Maker doesn't manage program changes directly, it only manages them as part of MIDI Presets that you define. So the automation track won't record MIDI program changes you send in from another sequencer, it would only record MIDI program changes. You could trigger the MIDI program changes from another device using the various remote control methods that Set List Maker supports, but I don't see a benefit to creating automation tracks that way.

If you already have all your program changes sequenced on another device, what would be the advantage of recreating those sequences in Set List Maker?

Pongo

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If you already have all your program changes sequenced on another device, what would be the advantage of recreating those sequences in Set List Maker?

The advantage would be that I no longer have to shlep my midi keyboard to a gig.

With SLM playing back the mp3 file (that was created from the sequence), I'm looking for the most efficient way to get the midi program changes into and out of SLM as well.

arlo

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There's no way to convert a MIDI sequence in another device to an automation track in Set List Maker, sorry.

Pongo

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Really? It seems like a relatively simple task:
Have SLM use `midi learn', to record only program/patch change information from a single track within a sequence.

Any interest in putting this on your wish list? I can't imagine that I'm the only user that could benefit from such a tool!


arlo

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Set List Maker doesn't manage program changes directly, it only manages them as part of MIDI presets that you define. So in order for it to track incoming program changes in the way that you want, two things would have to happen: 1) you would have to define your MIDI presets in advance, and 2) you would have to define them in such a way that each MIDI preset only contains one program change and each program change is only included in one MIDI preset. Then Set List Maker could convert from the incoming program changes to the corresponding MIDI presets, which it would save in the automation track. That's not very intuitive, and so far I haven't heard of any other demand for this. If anyone else would use this feature, please post here.

Pongo

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Perhaps I am the exception, rather than the rule and/or I have not explained my query correctly.

My goal with SLM (or any similar app...of which there aren't any, because it's so amazing) is to simply mirror the way that I perform with a midi keyboard, connected to a TC Helicon Voicelive 2 vocal processor. I dedicate one of my 16 available midi channels in my keyboard to ONLY transmit program changes to the VL2, to switch presets as the midi sequence plays my backing tracks. This eliminates the need for me to play hop scotch with the VL2 and can focus on making the changes to all of my other gear on my pedal board as I play guitar and sing. This system works well, as I have been able to fine tune the program changes, based on the tempo of the song. Being able to adjust the midi timing to the visual grid of the song (displayed in beats and measures, as opposed to seconds) has yielded great results...save for having to bring a keyboard to the gig, just to play the backing tracks.

Since I have recorded the sequences as a stereo audio file (with a one bar intro), the mp3 file should be the same as the midi sequence, as far as timing is considered, so being able to have SLM reproduce this dedicated program change information in time with the mp3 file, seemed like something worth pursuing. I see now, that it's not possible.

Once I manage to get the program changes into SLM (manually) and adjust the timing of the events (which takes quite a while), it works great. My issue is with the inputting of this midi information into SLM.

Thanks for listening.

arlo

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Part of the problem here is that you're talking about new functionality that you would use to convert your existing system to the Set List Maker system and then you wouldn't use it again. So this wouldn't help you unless you're willing to postpone your setup for several months while I implement the new functionality. But if I see that other users are going through a similar conversion process, then it might still be worthwhile to add.

Pongo

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Oh, but I would continue to use that feature going forward, should it ever become available.

I like the current method that I use to create my sequences (in my keyboard/workstation along with Pro Tools) and will continue to do so.
I have no plans to abandon my midi keyboard anytime soon...just not too keen on bringing it to a gig, unless I have to.

NitroDoc

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I'll agree with Pongo!  Please Please Please add the ability to use Midi Learn and let us simply play in a single channel Standard Midi File from a sequencer to be recorded in SLM and used for controlling outboard devices.  I'm a pro musician with 30 years of midi experience.  This would allow many of us in the field to lighten up our load on equipment.  The devices that we need to control are not audio devices so we cannot simply put it into an audio track.  I would love to be able to send out Note On and Note Off commands at many different times while an audio file is playing - all in sync with a PDF file on screen.  We're almost there with one iPad!  Set List Maker is still a great App and I've been using it for about 2.5 years.

arlo

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Re: Alternate way to enter MIDI automation, other than from the display window?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2014, 01:34:01 PM »
If you already have standard MIDI files and you like working with that format, you can get a MIDI sequencer app and run it in the background and set up Set List Maker to control the song selection and start/stop events for the sequencer. The sequencer I hear about most often is Sweet MIDI Player:

http://www.ronimusic.com/smp_ios.htm