"Download Error" - missing documents

[joebear]

I am trying to transition from SLM to BH. I am finding one aspect of BH to be currently intolerable. I'm sure there is a way to get past this, but I cannot yet seem to resolve it.
Every time I do anything significant in BH / iPad (e.g. open it, change project, maybe other things), I get dozens of error dialogs, each of which must be dismissed separately. The read:
<b>Download Error</b>
</br>
The file for the document <<whateverfilename>> is missing. (225)"

These files are all (or at least overwhelmingly) on the device. I tried deleting and readding the docs -- the docs are clearly in the list from which to select the docs to be attached -- but the same files are again among the jillions of dialogs needing to be dismissed.

Set List Maker on the same device has no issues with this. Indeed, these projects all started as SLM imports.

How do I move forward?

[arlo]

It sounds like you have entries for documents in your account that don't have files attached to them. Please send a message from Help > Request Tech Support in the app and then I'll be able to answer more definitively.

[arlo]

I got your support email. You have entries in your database for a bunch of recordings that don't have the audio files attached to them. You can go to the Repertoire > Recordings page to see them; these entries don't have playback icons. You can edit these entries one at a time and attach files to them from the app or the web interface, or you can collect the audio files on your computer, zip them together and upload them with the Batch Upload button in the web interface. Or you can delete the entries if you don't intend to use them.

[joebear]

I'm not sure I understand.

As I indicated, the files are on my iPad by virtue of the fact that they are attached to the corresponding songs in SLM.

In BH-iPad, all the relevant 'missing' files are on the iPad, and indicated as already attached to the songs.

For several of the songs for which I am getting an error message, I 'Remove'd and re-'Add Documents''ed the missing documents in BH-iPad, but the dialogs still appear for these missing documents.

How do I get past this? Need I do so in the web interface? If so, I would suggest that is where the error dialog should appear - not in the iPad version.

Further, the uploading a zip file failed utterly for me. I reported this elsewhere, though I don't recall where. I'll dig it up and provide a link.

[arlo]

Set List Maker links to recordings in your iTunes music library, while BandHelper maintains its own set of recordings. This allows BandHelper to sync recordings across devices. This also means that if you are switching from Set List Maker to BandHelper, you need to add your recordings to BandHelper, because it can't link to iTunes like Set List Maker does.

Did you import your Set List Maker data into BandHelper? That process creates database records for your recordings and documents, and links your songs to those records, but doesn't copy the recordings and documents themselves. You need to upload those files. Instructions are on the Account > Import page that you used to import your Set List Maker data, and I also summarized the instructions in my last post.

[joebear]

Found the zip import report. It was in reply to your 'Thanks for trying BandHelper' welcome email. Looks like the ball is in my court for failing to answer a question of yours. Dated May 21, reproduced below.

--------
(me) Trying to import data from SLM to BH did not seem to work very cleanly. Many docs (and possibly some recordings) never made it from the zip file to the project. I had to add them one-by-one. If this cold be simplified, it would be cool.

(you) Did the folder you zipped contain subfolders? The import will only look in the top level of a zipped folder. That's the first explanation that comes to mind.

(me) Also, it seems to cross project boundaries at times. I ended up with docs added to one project appearing in multiple projects. If I can make a systematic report on this, I will.

(you) I don't know of any reason for that to happen. Batch imported documents and recordings should be added to whatever project you are viewing when you import them.
-------

To answer your question, no, the zip did not contain subfolders. The zipfile I uploaded is attached.

I don't recall the specifics of songs crossing project boundaries. This may be a error in my reporting, instigated by the fact that any missing files are reported no matter what project one tries to work with on the iPad.

[joebear]

Set List Maker links to recordings in your iTunes music library, while BandHelper maintains its own set of recordings. This allows BandHelper to sync recordings across devices. This also means that if you are switching from Set List Maker to BandHelper, you need to add your recordings to BandHelper, because it can't link to iTunes like Set List Maker does.

Did you import your Set List Maker data into BandHelper?

Yes.

That process creates database records for your recordings and documents, and links your songs to those records, but doesn't copy the recordings and documents themselves. You need to upload those files. Instructions are on the Account > Import page that you used to import your Set List Maker data, and I also summarized the instructions in my last post.

Yes. Reproduced below. Followed to the letter

Code Select Expand


Instructions

    If you use Set List Maker's database sync feature, navigate to the main menu and tap Settings > Database Sync > Sync Now to make sure your device is in sync with your other devices.
    Navigate to the main menu and tap Help > Export to BandHelper.
    An email message appears. Address it to yourself, then send the message.
    When you receive the message, you'll see an attachment with a .plist extension. Save that file to your desktop.
    If your account contains more than one project, select the project you want to import into from the menu below.
    Click the file button below, select the .plist file, and click Continue.
    The import will begin and then a confirmation page will appear telling you what was imported.


As indicated elsewhere, the zip upload process failed for me, with the vast majority of the unzipped files seemingly escaping notice by your cloud server (though they are indeed in the zip).

You mention that certain recordings are missing, but the error dialog I am seeing has no mention of recordings - only documents.

Let us look at a specific instance: "The file for the document five-man-electrical-band--signs is missing. (225)". This song has no recording at all - either pre- or post- import, SLM or BH. Additionally, as stated, 'Remove'-ing it and re-'Add Documents'-ing it does not clear the error. I still get this particular error dialog for this particular song and this particular file. Again I ask - must this be done in the web app?

Well, I tried deleting and re-adding the file in the web interface with the same results. Stumped.

[arlo]

Okay, yes, this is about documents -- I was talking to a couple people who were having the same problem with recordings and I must have gotten my threads mixed up. Everything I said about recordings above also applies to documents, except documents are stored inside the Set List Maker app versus recordings being stored inside the iTunes music library. In both cases, they must be added to your BandHelper account to use them with BandHelper.

Your zip file uploaded correctly, but what I'm seeing now is that you've added document records for two different projects (perhaps by importing two different Set List Maker databases into two different BandHelper projects) but have only imported the zip file for one of the projects. So most of the error messages you're still seeing are for the other project. You could switch to the other project in the web interface and upload the same zip into that project, or alternatively you can delete the duplicate documents (the copies that don't have a file attached) and then assign the remaining copies to that project, so you have one copy of each document that's shared by both projects. The approach you should choose depends on whether or not you want to share document zoom positions and annotations across the two projects.

Please note that some documents have only been added to one project, and were not included in the zip file you uploaded -- for example, "ac-dc-you-shook-me." If you want to share documents across projects and delete the duplicates, you should be careful not to delete the documents that are not duplicated, and to upload files for those documents to eliminate the remaining error messages.

As if that weren't complicated enough, you also have a third project with only two document records, and no file is attached to those, either. Those probably weren't from a Set List Maker import since there are only two of them, and since there are only two, it would be faster just to add a file to each of them directly rather than doing a batch upload. The document names are "Fix-Me" and "brazilian."

You can attach files from the app or the web interface, but you can only do a batch upload from the web interface, so that's more efficient for the initial account setup. All the options for attaching documents are on this page:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/attaching_documents.html

[joebear]

Good news - I think I have resolved the issue. Less-good news - the road to success was tortuous and filled with pitfalls, potholes, and blind alleys. My journey is described below:

Let us use the example of the document "five-man-electrical-band--signs" and stick with that until resolved. Once this is resolved, I think I can apply the resolution to at least most of the issues I am encountering.

No matter which Project I am working with, upon any significant action in BH-iPad (i.e. BandHelper on the iPad), among the 41 error messages, I get "The file for the document five-man-electrical-band--signs is missing. (225)".

In BH-web, I see no corresponding error messages.

In BH-web, I have verified that the document "five-man-electrical-band--signs" is part of the Project "Krell", and not part of any of the other four Projects yet managed in BandHelper. I can see this both by Repertoire>Documents><<docname>> > Edit>Projects (Krell is the only Project checked), and by navigating to each project from the 'Your Account' drop down, and checking the list provided by Repertoire>Songs.

—————
Fail 1:

In BH-web, Repertoire>Songs><<song>> > Edit>Documents - I see two documents listed - "five-man-electrical-band--signs" and "five-man-electrical-band--signs-chords" (yes, I get the error on BH-iPad for the —chords file as well). I click the '-' for this file and save. I then click the '+' Add documents. I am presented with a list that contains the "five-man-electrical-band--signs" file. I check it, and hit Save on the dialog and [Save] on Song Edit.

In BH-iPad, I click the 'circled arrows' sync icon. After sync, I am presented with the same error dialogs, including the one for the relevant file.

———
Fail 2:

I launch BH-iPad. It opens to the Projects menu. I must dismiss a rash of error dialogs before I can do anything - one of them is our "five-man-electrical-band--signs". I select the 'Krell' project - which immediately results in the same dialog storm that must be dismissed one-by-one (including "five-man-electrical-band--signs"). I tap 'Repertoire (whew! no dialog storm) > Songs (whew!) > 'S' (whew!), Signs (whew! still no storm). Scrolling down, under Documents is listed both "five-man-electrical-band--signs" and "five-man-electrical-band--signs-chords". Hmm. I delete them ( '-' - Remove). Tap 'Add Documents', and scroll down to see them in the list. I select them and Save. They are now again displayed in the Documents portion of <<song>> > edit. I hit the sync icon. I get another storm of error dialogs - including "five-man-electrical-band--signs".

——
Works:

In BH-web, Repertoire>Documents the list contains "five-man-electrical-band--signs" - listed as 0 bytes, nothing listed for 'Updated' or 'File' columns. Select Edit for that list entry. I the file listed under 'Name', allocated to the correct Project, Me as a User, and Active is checked. Looks fine, right? Wait - Orientation is listed as 'Orientation...'. Hmmm. And what is that 'No file selected' next to the [Browse]? Click [Browse], navigate to the file in my computer's filesystem hierarchy, select it and click [Open]. There is now the filename next to the [Browse] button. Select an orientation, and hit [Save]. When the process finishes, the text next to [Browse] again says 'No file selected', though Portrait is listed for Orientation.

Selecting 'Return to list', I see the song listed with Updated date & time, and a File icon for this file.

Back on BH-iPad, I hit the sync icon. Another error storm, but this time, there is thankfully one less dialog to be manually dismissed - the one for "five-man-electrical-band--signs"

————
Discussion:

So after that wall of text, I apparently have a means of resolving my issue. Cool.

But I think things could be improved quite a bit.

1) Of the three places I looked to add the documents to the songs, each appearing to have a process to do so, only one works. (Further, it is the last place I looked, but that may be only due to the vagaries of how my individual mind makes associations). I would suggest implementing logic for the other two apparent mechanisms. Lacking that, do something that eliminates the impression that the other two mechanisms would yield the desired result.

1.5) I think I have seen the claim that BH-iPad does everything that SLM did. However, if there is not another way to attach documents to songs in BH-iPad (is there?), this claim would seem to be false. Apologies if such a claim has not been made.

2) BH-iPad seemed to be telling me that the relevant files were attached even though they were not (song>edit>Documents showed them in the list). I maintain that if they are not attached, they should not be shown as being attached.

2.5) Same as 2), but for BH-web>Repertoire>Songs><<song>> : there is a file icon there whether or not a song has been successfully attached. This is misleading.

2.75) Same as 2), but for BH-web>Repertoire>Songs><<song>> > Edit > Documents : the file appears there whether or not successfully attached. This is misleading.

2.875) Same as 2), but for BH-web>Repertoire>Documents><<song>> Edit > Name : the file appears there whether or not successfully attached. This is misleading.

3) This is probably the most important. I think the intent behind BH-iPad is that it is to be used as a tool in live performance. I would suggest that, though error indications are important, modal error dialogs (i.e. ones that must be dismissed manually before any other action can occur) have no place in a tool meant for live use. It takes me about a minute to click through all the missing dialog messages each time the error storm occurred. A minute is an eternity of futzing with borked technology when several hundred sets of eyes and ears are waiting for the downbeat of the next musical opus that will incite them into ecstatic frenzy.

3.5) If an error dialog is to appear anywhere, my preference would be not within BH-iPad, but rather within BH-web - whcih seems after all to be the only place that it can be resolved.

Thanks for listening!

[arlo]

I think you're confused between linking a document to a song, and uploading the file for a document, which are two different things. Unlinking and relinking a document to a song, as you did in "Fail 1" and "Fail 2," has no effect on whether the document has a file uploaded, or whether the app tries to download the file. The problem is that you need to upload files for your documents, which you finally did in "Works." This is what I told you to do in my June 4 post above.

Improvements:

1) Again, "adding documents to songs" and "uploading the file for a document" are two different things. I don't use this term because it is meaningless to most people, but a document in BandHelper is metadata -- information about the document like its title, orientation and filename. In other words, it's a database record, not a file. Associated with that database record should be a file, which is the actual document itself. When you add a document to a song, you're not interacting with the file directly, so the file might not actually be in the system. You need to make sure the file is actually there. If it isn't, you get the warnings. Most of the time that this happens, it's because someone imported data from Set List Maker, which includes the document metadata but not the documents themselves, and then doesn't continue with the instructions about uploading the documents themselves. As you've found, once you did that, the warnings stopped.

2, 2.5 and 2.75) The app correctly told you that the songs were linked to the documents. This doesn't mean your documents had files uploaded for them.

2.875) The document name is listed here (metadata), but the document icon is absent if no file is present. That's how you can see which documents you need to upload.

3) My assumption is that you will complete your import of Set List Maker data before you try to perform with the app. These alerts were telling you that you did not finish that process. Once you finish that process, the errors will not occur again.

3.5) The issue can be resolved (files can be uploaded) in the app or the web interface, but using the web interface is faster because that runs on your computer, which has a filesystem, which makes it easier to access the missing files. The reason the alerts appear is that people were adding a document (typing in a name) but not uploading a file for it, then they were opening the app and saying "why doesn't this document display, I added it in the website." The alert is saying the app found a database record but you didn't upload a file for it and you should do that now so you can use the file on your device. I think it makes sense to show the alerts in the app versus the website because that's where most people view their documents.

After reading all this, does the alert message "The file for the document [name] is missing" and my post from June 4 make more sense?

[joebear]

Thanks for the continued discussion. With your additional explanation, things do make more sense.

It may be just my preconceived notions, but I would wager to guess that most equate 'document' with 'file'. Or at least that the physical manifestation of a document is a file. They are interested in the contents of the document, not the metadata. Or at least I would.

With the notion internalized that 'Add Document' is, at its root adding a (struct? record?) of document metadata, most of the behavior makes sense.

I remain, however, puzzled about one aspect. The files were all on my iPad. Why is there (seemingly) no mechanism to add the files to the documents on the iPad? (see also 3.5.a below) Or is there - could I have done this through BH-iPad <<project>>Repertoire>Documents><<name>> > File > <<select from list>>? When I try this, no files whatsoever are displayed from which to choose.

While I get it now, in the BH-web Document Edit screen, the field 'Name' seems ambiguous to me. Perhaps part of my misunderstanding is that this is NOT the File name, it IS the Document Name, but the value of the document name seems to default to the file name. Accordingly, when looking at it, seeing the file name displayed, I thought the association had been made. The only clue that it is not, (at least on that screen) is that the Orientation has a value of "Oreinetation...". All other fields have the same value whether or not a file association has been made for that document.

OK, I get it now though. This should dispatch with 1) , 2), 2.5), 2.75), and with some lack of clarity 2.875). Cool (though I'd hunt for another name other than 'Document' for document metadata - maybe 'Document Record'? but that's lengthy).

3) Yes, the import must be concluded before the tool can be used live. Indeed, this has kept me on SLM for gigging since starting down this road several weeks ago.

3.a) but why is BH-iPad naggier about this than is BH-web? Now that I understand the difference between 'Documents' and Files, I see that BH-iPad, in the <<project>> > Repertoire>Documents>list has the same file association icons as does BH-web Repertoire>Documents list. IOW, BH-iPad already provides as much info about missing file associations as does BH-web, even before the interminable modal error dialogs. It may just be me, but I maintain that it seems like the right tool to be naggier (i.e. displaying modal error dialogs for missing file associations) is the BH-web tool, where: the user has a more functional interface; and it is less likely to be employed in the heat of live performance.

3.b) While the missing file dialogs are dispatched, I worry about the philosophy of modal dialogs for errors in general in BH-iPad. I would encourage you to think about whether transitory errors might also result in such model error dialogs.

3.5) Your reply sounds like another argument for making the BH-web naggier than BH-iPad.

3.5.a) You indicate "The issue can be resolved (files can be uploaded) in the app or the web interface", but it appears to me that this is not the case. At least unless you use a different select-from-list metaphor in BH-iPad project > Repertoire > Documents > <<doc name>> > File > list than you employ in (e.g.)  project > Set Lists > <<name >> > 'edit icon' >'Add Songs' > list. in the latter, all possible selections are listed - even ones impossible are listed and greyed out. In the former, I see absolutely nothing. (see screen shots attached). I know I have many .pdf files on the iPad, if some may not be anything that I would wish to attach to my songs - should they be visible? I'll return to this in a subsequent standalone post in this thread.

I hope I am not coming off as merely complaining. Your SLM has been an invaluable to for me for some time now - I think it is brilliant. As my understanding of BH improves, I hope it will become even more valuable to me than is SLM.

As to your question - "After reading all this, does the alert message "The file for the document [name] is missing" and my post from June 4 make more sense?" - yes it does - at least a little. If I substitute 'Documents' for 'Recordings' and 'File Icons' for 'playback icons', I can see a reused pattern from my new understanding of what a Document consists of. I need to squint a little, though, as I still seem to be having some difficulty with using BH-iPad to make an association between Documents and Files.

[arlo]

I remain, however, puzzled about one aspect. The files were all on my iPad. Why is there (seemingly) no mechanism to add the files to the documents on the iPad? (see also 3.5.a below) Or is there - could I have done this through BH-iPad <<project>>Repertoire>Documents><<name>> > File > <<select from list>>? When I try this, no files whatsoever are displayed from which to choose.

Do you mean they were all on your iPad in Set List Maker? Each app has its own private file storage locations and can't see other apps' files. So it doesn't help BandHelper to have your files in Set List Maker. You could open each of your files in Set List Maker and use the Open In function to copy it into BandHelper, then open each document record in BandHelper and attach the record to the file, but I usually steer people toward the web interface because that's faster when you have to upload a lot of files.

While I get it now, in the BH-web Document Edit screen, the field 'Name' seems ambiguous to me. Perhaps part of my misunderstanding is that this is NOT the File name, it IS the Document Name, but the value of the document name seems to default to the file name. Accordingly, when looking at it, seeing the file name displayed, I thought the association had been made. The only clue that it is not, (at least on that screen) is that the Orientation has a value of "Oreinetation...". All other fields have the same value whether or not a file association has been made for that document.

Seeing that a document record has a name should not be taken as an indication that a file has been uploaded. The presence of a file is indicated by a document icon in the File column of the Documents list, and a non-zero value in the Size column.

The rest of your comments are about the alert messages in the app, and yes, I could redesign the alert interface, cache the messages, display them in a summary, display them in the web interface instead, etc. But that would be a lot of work, and all the alerts will go away when you just upload your files, so it seems like not a good thing to prioritize given all the other things I want to do with this product.

[joebear]

Do you mean they were all on your iPad in Set List Maker? Each app has its own private file storage locations and can't see other apps' files. So it doesn't help BandHelper to have your files in Set List Maker. You could open each of your files in Set List Maker and use the Open In function to copy it into BandHelper, then open each document record in BandHelper and attach the record to the file, but I usually steer people toward the web interface because that's faster when you have to upload a lot of files.

Yes. Except I still am doing something wrong. I cannot seem to make BH-iPad work for adding files to documents. Please see the time-ordered sequence of screen caps attached.

1 - IMG_1417) In BH-iPad, in the Project The Wrong Omar, we can see the doc for Stubborn Little Heart. Nevertheless, we see a download error for this file. Whatev. Let's fix it.

2 - IMG_1418) We're in SLM now, database The Wrong Omar, displaying the doc with file attached. Let us send the file to BH-iPad.

3 - IMG_1419) Send, tap 'Open in BandHelper'

4 - IMG_1420) Back in BH-iPad. Prompt: Replace File? (Replace? does that not imply a file is already attached?) Tap 'Replace'

5 - IMG_1421) 'File Copied' dialog. Cool - we're done, right?

6 - IMG_1422) Hmm. Download Error for this file still. Do we need to re-attach the file to the document?

7 - IMG_1423) getting there...

8 - IMG_1424) getting there ... OK, we're at Documents > list. We still see the pdf (old or new?)

9 - IMG_1425) Hmm. File is set to Stubborn-Little-Heart. Is it old or new? Let us reattach to make sure it is new.

10 - IMG_1426) Drat! nothing to choose. It's like there is no file from which to select. Did it take yet?

11 - IMG_1427) Roll through another project in order to get dialogs triggered.

12 - IMG_1428) Damn! still missing

I did not capture, but returning to The Wrong Omar project still has the error.

What am I doing wrong?

<< continued next post due to attachment restriction >>

[joebear]

<< continued to attach more screen caps >>

[joebear]

<< last batch of attachments >>