Recordings attached to songs -- when you have limited space on i-Devices

[Erawal]

Hi, I am trying to understand how Bandhelper handles recordings that are attached to songs.  I currently have plenty of room on my Mac, and plenty of room on my iPad but hardly any room on my iPhone (which, as luck would have it, is the device that I most often use with Bandhelper). 

Currently, I make very sparing use of recordings in Bandhelper, because I am afraid of doing something that will make my iPhone fill up to beyond capacity.  I would love to have at least one reference recording and perhaps some practice recordings for each song, but I have hundreds of songs and am afraid this might be untenable.

So -- a few questions:

1.  When I attach a recording to a song in Bandhelper, does the song file actually get physically COPIED into Bandhelper (i.e., if it's already in my iTunes, will I now have a SECOND file that lives in Bandhelper)?   If so, any way to see how much room each song takes up? 

2.  Is it possible to have recordings automatically download to the iPad and Mac but NOT to the iPhone?  (I know there is a "manually load to device" option, but I am not exactly sure how that works. 

3.  If I'm on wifi or connected to the internet on my iPhone, could I access a recording that's stored in the Bandhelper web application without actually permanently downloading it to my phone?  That is, can I access recordings attached to a song without actually having the physical files stored on (and taking up room on) my iPhone?

4.  If I make a practice recording from within Bandhelper when I am using my iPhone, or otherwise download a recording to Bandhelper using my iPhone, do I have to store the file on my iPhone, or can I somehow tell it to download to all devices EXCEPT my iPhone.  If I delete from one device, would it also delete from other devices (I want to avoid inadvertently trashing my recordings or disassociating them from songs in Bandhelper when I am trying to deal with my iPhone space issues). 

Thanks for any advice you may have.  Also, I'd be curious to know whether it's common to have multiple recordings attached to hundreds of songs, and whether that works smoothly or causes storage issues and/or slow-down in the application.

--erawal

[arlo]

1.  When I attach a recording to a song in Bandhelper, does the song file actually get physically COPIED into Bandhelper (i.e., if it's already in my iTunes, will I now have a SECOND file that lives in Bandhelper)?

BandHelper doesn't use your iTunes recordings, so adding a recording to BandHelper will copy it into your app regardless of whether the recording is already in your Music app.

If so, any way to see how much room each song takes up?

You can view the file sizes of your recordings from the Repertoire > Recordings page in the app or the web interface. There's no way to see the combined size of multiple recordings attached to a song.

2.  Is it possible to have recordings automatically download to the iPad and Mac but NOT to the iPhone?  (I know there is a "manually load to device" option, but I am not exactly sure how that works. 

The manual copy function works at the file level, not the device level. There is not currently a setting to stop files from downloading to a given device, but I'll put that on my wish list.

A workaround would be to add a second username for yourself, then don't assign recordings to that username, then use that username on your phone. However, this would create some complications with the scheduling functions if you're using those.

3.  If I'm on wifi or connected to the internet on my iPhone, could I access a recording that's stored in the Bandhelper web application without actually permanently downloading it to my phone?  That is, can I access recordings attached to a song without actually having the physical files stored on (and taking up room on) my iPhone?

BandHelper can't stream audio over the Internet. It can only play recordings that have been downloaded and saved locally.

4.  If I make a practice recording from within Bandhelper when I am using my iPhone, or otherwise download a recording to Bandhelper using my iPhone, do I have to store the file on my iPhone, or can I somehow tell it to download to all devices EXCEPT my iPhone.

There is not currently a setting to stop files from downloading to a given device.

If I delete from one device, would it also delete from other devices (I want to avoid inadvertently trashing my recordings or disassociating them from songs in Bandhelper when I am trying to deal with my iPhone space issues). 

After they download, you could delete the recording files from your phone from the iTunes File Sharing interface on your computer. However, BandHelper will regard those as missing files and might try to download them again at some point.

Thanks for any advice you may have.  Also, I'd be curious to know whether it's common to have multiple recordings attached to hundreds of songs, and whether that works smoothly or causes storage issues and/or slow-down in the application.

Yes, that is common and doesn't cause a slow-down, but obviously it does require storage on your phone depending on how many recordings you have. Assuming you are using compressed recordings of about 5MB in size (that should cover a 3 minute recording with low to medium compression), you could have 200 recordings for a gigabyte of space.

[Erawal]

Thanks for your reply, Arlo.  I WOULD really appreciate your adding this item to your wishlist (ability to tell Bandhelper to refrain from downloading or to stop downloading recording to one particular device) as you said. 

One question for clarification -- In answer to my question:
If I delete from one device, would it also delete from other devices

You said:  "After they download, you could delete the recording files from your phone from the iTunes File Sharing interface on your computer..."

I presume that means that if I simply go into edit mode for a song on my iPhone and delete a recording, that recording WILL, in fact, be deleted from EVERY device including the web interface (and that there is no option for saying "Please Delete from Only This Device").   Is that right?  If so, device-specific deleting is something that I'd also request that you add to your wish list. 

Thanks so much! 

BTW, I really appreciate Bandhelper and your responsiveness to user questions.  It's a great app (and I haven't even delved into many of its functions yet...). 

[arlo]

I presume that means that if I simply go into edit mode for a song on my iPhone and delete a recording, that recording WILL, in fact, be deleted from EVERY device including the web interface (and that there is no option for saying "Please Delete from Only This Device").   Is that right?

Right.

If so, device-specific deleting is something that I'd also request that you add to your wish list. 

Got it.

Thanks so much!

You're welcome!

[BlindFish]

just an additional question which would not be worth its own topic:

i presumed that the "copy to device manually" checkbox would prevent recordings from being copied onto a device automatically by syncing the account data but would allow me to manually download recordings to my device within the BH app. But as far as i can see, there is no way to tell the BH app to download a recording which is linked to a song. so, does manually mean that i have to copy the recordings by myself e. g. by connecting an android tablet to my pc?

[arlo]

does manually mean that i have to copy the recordings by myself e. g. by connecting an android tablet to my pc?

Yes.

[BlindFish]

OK, thanks. But why will deactivating the manual sync switch for a recording on BH.com affect the setting on the device and automatically download a recording but not vice versa? when i deactivate the switch for manual syncing recordings for a particular recording on my ipad, the change will neither show up on BH.com nor will it download the recording onto the device.

And is there a way to share recordings that have been downloaded by the BH app with other applications on on IOS?

[arlo]

OK, thanks. But why will deactivating the manual sync switch for a recording on BH.com affect the setting on the device and automatically download a recording but not vice versa? when i deactivate the switch for manual syncing recordings for a particular recording on my ipad, the change will neither show up on BH.com nor will it download the recording onto the device.

That sounds like a bug that I'll check out. However, I would warn against hoping to use this as a way to do an "on-demand" download, because that's not what this function is designed for. It is designed to prevent files from syncing, not control when they sync.

And is there a way to share recordings that have been downloaded by the BH app with other applications on on IOS?

No, but I can put that on my wish list.

[BlindFish]

That sounds like a bug that I'll check out. However, I would warn against hoping to use this as a way to do an "on-demand" download, because that's not what this function is designed for. It is designed to prevent files from syncing, not control when they sync.

OK, so i will consider to change my strategy here to just add / remove users on demand although this might be some more work. But thank you anyway for checking this out.

As i am using apps like Anytune for practicing new songs, the possibility of sharing content would be really helpful.

[arlo]

OK, thanks. But why will deactivating the manual sync switch for a recording on BH.com affect the setting on the device and automatically download a recording but not vice versa?

This should be fixed in the new app version released today. Turning off the Copy To Devices Manually setting for a document or recording in the app will trigger a download for that file.

[arlo]

Thanks for your reply, Arlo.  I WOULD really appreciate your adding this item to your wishlist (ability to tell Bandhelper to refrain from downloading or to stop downloading recording to one particular device) as you said. 

In the new app versions I submitted to the app stores today, you can tap the sync button in the top toolbar to show a popup with sync settings, then turn off Auto-Download Files. This setting works per-device, so you can auto-download onto a tablet but not to a phone. Then if you ever want to download a single file, you can tap its icon and the app will prompt you to download just that file. Finally, you can clear any previously downloaded files with the Remove Downloaded Files button in the sync settings.

The Android version should be available later today and the iOS version in a few days.

The complete list of changes is here:

http://www.bandhelper.com/support/release_notes.html

[arlo]

And is there a way to share recordings that have been downloaded by the BH app with other applications on on IOS?

Email and export buttons were added to the recording edit page in version 3.3 last June. Sorry for the delayed notification.

[Erawal]

I would like to renew the inquiries/requests from my initial post (I was the one who posted this topic initially), since as far as I have can tell, the changes Arlo mentioned above have not addressed my concerns (and/or I am not understanding how to make them work for me -- quite possible!).  To recap, what I would like to do is:

1. Have RECORDINGS automatically load ONLY to my iPAD (which has plenty of space), and NOT to my iPhone (which has almost no space). 
2. Be able to SELECTIVELY LOAD RECORDINGS onto my iPhone when I need them (having the metadata visible from my iPhone so that I can tell which recordings are missing from my device but that are available for download).
3. Be able to SELECTIVELY DELETE RECORDINGS from my iPhone (i.e.,  when I have listened to what I need, to recover the space), WITHOUT having the recordings simultaneously vanish from my iPAD or from the web app.
4. Ideally, continue to have PDF and Word  DOCUMENTS download automatically to all devices (Word Files and PDF files don't seem to pose a big space issue, so I'd like to continue to have them on all devices). 
I do not currently use videos, but if I did, given their size, I'd want to treat them the same way as recordings -- i.e., be able to selectively download them to a device depending on whether I have space.

I have experimented with turning off the "Auto-Download Files" option under the Sync menu, and with uploading attachments using the "Copy to Devices Manually" option, but so far, this has not enabled me to achieve my goals.  Perhaps I am doing something wrong?  I would appreciate help or clarification -- is what I want to do possible, and if not, could you please add it to a future update?  Thanks!

By the way,  I have NOT yet tried creating a different username for use only on my iphone, and specifying that user shouldn't get documents -- I think Arlo mentioned that as a possibility.  It sounds like a complicated workaround, so I haven't gone down that path, in the hope I would be able to get this done in some other way. 

Thank you. 

[arlo]

The closest thing to what you're describing here would be to turn off Auto-Download Files on your phone, then click Remove Downloaded Files. Then go through the Documents list and click all the icons to download those. Then when you want to play a recording, click its icon to download it. However, there's no way to selectively remove recordings like you can selectively download them. So if you want to remove recordings after listening to them, you'd have to click Remove Downloaded Files again and start over with the document downloads.

One possible enhancement would be an auto-download setting that includes a file size limit, so all files under the limit (e.g., PDF documents) would be auto-downloaded. Another would be an option to remove individual downloaded files, although to be honest the effort it would take to go back and remove those is probably not worth the typically 3-5 MB per file that you would save. Another would be an option to stream recordings instead of playing them locally. Of course, that would prevent you from playing recordings when you don't have an Internet connection. I can put these on my wish list.

If you use the built-in lyrics field instead of attached documents, the problem becomes simpler because your lyrics will always download and will take practically no space.

[Erawal]

The closest thing to what you're describing here would be to turn off Auto-Download Files on your phone, then click Remove Downloaded Files. Then go through the Documents list and click all the icons to download those. Then when you want to play a recording, click its icon to download it. However, there's no way to selectively remove recordings like you can selectively download them. So if you want to remove recordings after listening to them, you'd have to click Remove Downloaded Files again and start over with the document downloads.

I don't see this as a viable solution, at least for me.  Having to remove ALL attachments and then reload the ones you want, every time you want to remove just a single file, seems prohibitively cumbersome.

One possible enhancement would be an auto-download setting that includes a file size limit, so all files under the limit (e.g., PDF documents) would be auto-downloaded. Another would be an option to remove individual downloaded files, although to be honest the effort it would take to go back and remove those is probably not worth the typically 3-5 MB per file that you would save.
I know that each individual file may not take up that much space, but for someone with an iPhone that's always giving error messages that you've reached capacity, and close to 1800 songs in Bandhelper, those individual files can add up.   Typically, I'd probably access a recording file to remind me of an arrangement when I need it, and then immediately delete it from the iPhone to save space (Yes, I know, getting a new iPhone with more space would be ideal, but that's not in the cards right now, and I think the general principle of space limitations will likely continue to be an issue). 

Another would be an option to stream recordings instead of playing them locally. Of course, that would prevent you from playing recordings when you don't have an Internet connection. I can put these on my wish list.

Yes, I'd appreciate it if you would move this request up on the Bandhelper wishlist.  As you can see from the history of my posts, this has been an issue at least for me for quite some time, and has prevented me from making extensive use of the recording feature of Bandhelper. 

Frankly, if it's easier/more feasible for you to enable an option to stream recordings instead of playing them locally, that would 90% satisfy my needs -- I am almost always someplace with an internet connection when I need to access a recording.  (that's not true for documents, though -- I definitely want to be able to access documents regardless of whether I have an internet connection).

If the preferred implementable solution is something other than enabling streaming access of recordings, then my vote would be an option to
     A) allow users to set a device (in my case, my i-phone) to NOT automatically download all files (or, even better, to not automatically files of above a certain size, though that may be fancier than needed if it's hard to program), AND
     B) Have that device show the metadata for the available but not-yet-downloaded files (i.e., the titles and type -- document or recording) next to the songs, so that the user has some way of knowing what is missing, and then allow the user to click on any file they want to selectively download; AND
     C) Allow the user to selectively DELETE recordings from a specific device without deleting the file from the other devices or from the server.

That would be really helpful.  And, again, if it's easier to program some kind of streaming option for listening to recordings, that would be OK with me.  (Ideally, the streaming option would be device-specific -- i.e., I could set my iPhone to access recordings via streaming, but I could still have my iPad download them locally, since I have plenty of space on the iPad). 

Thanks for considering this.

If you use the built-in lyrics field instead of attached documents, the problem becomes simpler because your lyrics will always download and will take practically no space.
      Yes,I do use the built-in lyrics field for just about ALL of my songs, but in some cases, I ALSO download attachments that show my hand-written markings to indicate notes about harmonies, etc.  I am not concerned about the size of the lyrics attachments -- it's the recordings that I am concerned about, if I were to append recording files to many of my songs, as I'd like to do.