Send Midi at song start and end.

[JerryK]

In my duo projects, I want to send Midi to the mixer, to switch effects on at the start of each Song, and again at the end to switch them off.
Effects-On is not a problem, though I wonder if it would happen at Song Select, rather than Second Select (= start) which would suit me better.
However, I can't see a way to send the Effects-Off message(s) at the end of each Song.

I'm not reeeally keen to do it with automation because that's the start and end of every song.  Songs might also be smart-copied and used in regular non-duo project(s), where that might not be wanted.

Any other solutions out there, other than a footswitch?  I have plenty to do already.
Jerry

[arlo]

You probably want to create one MIDI preset that resets your mixer, then use the Pinned To All Songs setting on that MIDI preset (rather than manually adding it to all songs). Then you can edit Settings > App Control > Actions > Send Pinned MIDI and select a layout action like Two-Fingered Tap or a foot switch message to send the pinned preset manually, or select the Song Completion layout action to send it automatically. Song Completion is defined as the end of a recording, video or automation track if any are playing, or the value of the song's Duration field if not.

I'm not sure what the concerns are that you mentioned, but you could turn off this setting on gigs where it isn't wanted, or deactivate the pinned preset. Or if you don't need MIDI at all, you can just not connect your MIDI interface and the MIDI messages won't go anywhere.

[JerryK]

A-ha - I didn't see a way to send midi at the end of a song, without using automation.  To do it on all of them, without automation, is probably excellent.
I had noticed pinning to all - very useful.

I guess the remaining wrinkle is the songs where we don't use backing.  Maybe FX OFF on first select, FX ON on second select.  Have I just become a genius??

Thanks Arlo

[arlo]

I don't understand what you're trying to do with "the songs where we don't use backing." Can you describe the problem you're trying to solve with that?

[JerryK]

Sure.  Many songs have backing tracks and we play along, as you would expect.
Some songs, perhaps the first 6 - 12, for some venues or event types, are performed with just me on guitar, plus 2 of us on vocals.
So I think (I read the idea earlier) that I can attach midi to a song and send midi for FX OFF on first select, then FX ON on second select.
Since each song ends and auto-selects the next one, the reverb or whatever will be switched off at the 'end' of the song.
Yes?
In fact, I suppose first select and end of song (duration) are almost equivalent in this scenario.  Backing or not was an issue when I was trying to achieve this via Gating on the mixer.  It works with backing tracks, not without.

Trying to get a lot done, with the day-job in the way.
I've not had a chance to try any solution yet.

Sorry, I'm spinning too many plates at once.

[arlo]

You still haven't stated the problem you're trying to solve. What is happening with the recommended solution and what do you want to happen instead?

[JerryK]

Sorry, too many family issues stopping me dealing with it, plus a list of songs to learn in a hurry.  Still true.

I was expecting to use mixer gating (or possibly ducking) to switch off mixer vocal FX between songs.  But that doesn't work where backing tracks are not used.  So I began to investigate BH Midi.  Probably in too much hurry, it seemed I could enable FX on song second select but didn't remember a way to undo that at song end.  I now think you've made changes or it was there all along.  Anyway, FX OFF at first select will do it if needed.  I've not looked for those hooks yet - I still have zero time to spend on it.
Also, I was persuaded by Ahiru's post that Automation may be worth the effort, giving me more features or choices.

[arlo]

It doesn't sound like you've tried the solution I offered in my first reply above. I think that will do what you want. Your scenario is a common use for those functions.

[JerryK]

It doesn't sound like you've tried the solution I offered in my first reply above. I think that will do what you want. Your scenario is a common use for those functions.

That sounds like the place to start but as you say, I've not managed to try anything yet. Way too busy with life issues and new songs.
The 'case study' post is interesting, with good reasons for automation - but later, possibly much later.

Thanks as always

[JerryK]

I got it working, rough and ready, with Pinned Midi 1 & 2. 
Pm 1 is connected to song select & song auto-select and sends FX OFF.
Pm 2 is connected to song second select and sends FX ON when we stop talking.

I haven't found End of Song in Layout Actions for any Midi item, not just the pinned ones but the above does the job when another song follows. 
A dummy song will do the job at the end of each set.

AND - before any Pause.  Drat, I use those.

I might add Automation later, so we could talk over counts and intros without FX or maybe just without echo.

[arlo]

Settings > App Control > Actions > Send Pinned MIDI > Layout Actions > Song Completion will send all the pinned MIDI presets at the end of each song. Typically your "effects on" preset would be song-specific so it would not be pinned, but if you are using the same preset for every song and want to pin that, too, I could add Song Completion as an option for Send Pinned MIDI 1 so you can only send that pinned preset at the end of each song.

By the way, you could also add the Multiple MIDI Buttons item to your layout, which will show a separate button for each pinned preset. That could be handy if you make your announcements, then turn on your effects, then remember something else you want to say and need to turn the effects off again and then back on again.

[JerryK]

Thanks for that. I'll have to think that through after a couple more busy days and 1 or 2 more for a lie down!  Haha.

Currently PM1 is FX off, first+auto select; PM2 is FX on, second select.  Both are on every song, so  far.  I'll be testing all that on a duo gig in a few hours.

Aha - THERE's 'song completion'.  So that would send ALL pinned midi, presumably in numerical order.  That would get me away from the dummy songs to switch FX off at end of Set.  I would need to swap the PM1/2 content.

Buttons, good idea, though I do have manual FX buttons on the Mixing Station tablet, so not essential for me.

[JerryK]

... I could add Song Completion as an option for Send Pinned MIDI 1 so you can only send that pinned preset at the end of each song.

I think that's what I need, in fact I was surprised you didn't already.  So that any song, including the last one in each set, will switch off the PA and guitar fx.  This is how it's currently set up, with all of that as pinned midi 1.
I also have PA FX OFF at 1st select and ON at 2nd select, pinned as 2 & 3.  I obviously misunderstood Send Pinned Midi, thinking it was always only PM1 or 'the default' at end of song.
That might explain end-of-song presets sometimes misbehaving.

UPDATE.  I figured out the misbehaving.  The Helix Midi-to-footswitch assignments are per-preset.  My layout is always the same, so I assumed I had to do it once.  So it worked a lot of the time, and then didn't.
Now I've FULLY absorbed that ALL pinned midi is sent at song end, I've reversed the PA FX messages, so that OFF is the last one.

I think I still favour the option to send just 1 pinned midi at song end though.

*Hint for other Helix owners: the supplied Midi CCs for stomp footswitches are Toggles, so each press or midi message switches to the other state, regardless of the CC value.  This can become exactly what you don't want, especially in the middle of a song.  So I use custom CCs from 101, applied via Bypass Assign, to switch definitely on or off.  Also a BH preset as part of the End of Song message, setting all those to my default preference (always the same for me).