any implications of having the same songs in different databases

[Danny]

hi Arlo

I have finally got myself straight with the labeling and access of my shows,

But I wondered would there be any issues if I imported the same songs in to a new database.

I do not intend to delete anything i import, only have different colors attached to the songs. And maybe edit the titles etc.

You mentioned  in another post this might cause problems, could you elaborate a little please as to what these might be.

Sorry for pestering you

Danny

[arlo]

The only problem is that you will have to maintain each copy separately. So if you change the key of a song, for example, you would have to repeat that edit in both databases.

[Danny]

That's not a problem at all, I don't change keys,

Did my first show tonight on my own, with SLM in label view in smart lists,

Worked perfectly

Thanks arlo

[Danny]

Hi Arlo,

if I have a database that I am happy with, all colour coded and numbered  for a specific running order, can I sync it and then rename that database title in order to preserve my work, and then create a new database and give it the name of the saved database?

Example

I sync dannyfisher

Then rename it to dannyfisheroriginal

Then create a new database

Dannyfisher

Sync it and restore the label colors and the edited titles, where I have added 01 to the title, etc so I avoid, all the labeling and title editing that I have to do for every new show I create,

so if I had a copy, I could delete non appropriate material for age specific shows,

sorry to bother you with this, but I don't want to try it or mess with the app tonight because I have no laptop to rescue my material if it cocks up.

Many thanks

Danny

[arlo]

I don't recommend syncing multiple databases on your device to the same sync name. There is usually a better way to achieve what you might be after in doing that. In your case, you can just copy a database by tapping Settings > General Settings > Copy and then entering a new name, but then you should go to Settings > Database Sync and either remove the sync name, or enter a new sync name, for the new copy. That will avoid the two databases syncing their data to each other, which would defeat the purpose of creating a separate copy.

[Sander]

Out of interest, why would you need to change the title of songs for a new show? Or why would you number them at all when you can put them in any order in a show and have Setlist Maker add song numbers? I don't use labels much but I could see it would be annoying to have to change them all the time. You could however duplicate the songs in the same database with a slightly modified name and avoid the potential syncing issues.

[Danny]

Hi Arlo and hi Sander

When I first started using SLM, I created a database of 250 songs, this list was derived from a playlist with my entire repertoire in,

The first 40 songs in the list were the most frequently sung, for an audience of a certain age, then ghe next songs were more modern,  I am in Ibiza Spain, it's quite young here, the remaining 200 songs were ballads and swing and songs that I would not normally do,  the list included about  ten master mix nonstop tunes for interval , I have whittled that list down to about 200 songs now.

so at first the "shows " view seemed a good idea, all my songs in the right order all colur coded, but the problem was, on my first time out with SLM, I was only 3 songs in to the show, and people were screaming for rock and roll, in my show this starts at about song 150, so lots of scrolling to the Rock and roll and lots of scrolling back, my  pad and my mixer are sometimes 25 feet away from my position on stage so any messing about looks bad IMHO, which is why is use discreet switches and AirPlay.
This  scrolling got on my nerves and that was why I requested that Arlo add a jump to colour option actually within the shows view, I would have loved an AirPlay option too,  so if you were looking for an obscure song you pushed a coloured icon, or bluetooth key,  and the first song with that label jumps to view and is selected.

So now, I have abandoned shows view and use label view in smart lists,

All the songs I sing in the first hour of my show regardless of audience age are in default white, ballads are green and are sandwhiched between soul and motown and rock and roll, pale blue and dark blue, with two final sections for obscure songs and interval.

This method is great except that every song needs to be carefully numerically ordered so that the running order of my show is maintained, hence the question I asked Arlo was,

Can I copy the database somehow with the colors and numbers intact  and then remove all the old or young songs to suit, so I have an old show and young show, but not shows, databases.

I will follow Arlos advice and see how that goes,

Cheers

Danny

[Sander]

I understand. Also, if I understand your situation correctly, it would be workable if you could add songs quickly by label? I have wondered about this myself. Quick Add is a nice feature but not very practical with large databases. Some kind of hybrid between smart list and show view would be great. Effectively being able to convert a smart list to a show and keeping the "if you played this song yet" tag.

[Danny]

Hi sander  I agree over hybrid view, good idea, not sure about the if you played this song yet bit, what do you mean

I would love songs played in their entirety  during a show to grey out, all Michael buble swing songs seem to blur in to one for me, lol

I guess we could we all come up with different variations of the app untill the cows come home, but at the end of the day it's down to Arlo, and I guess for users of this forum to all agree on  what we want Arlo to do or prioritize.

I did another gig tonight using label  view, it was a bit messy to be honest, what I noticed was that when it came to the last song before the interval, I hit play and forget to select the song before the interval song( I have song completion selects next song toggled on in automation, so if you are playing song one and want to advance to song eleven next, you have to select song ten, song one ends and the selected song jumps forward one) this threw me throughout the show, so it was not slick, but the crowd got a laugh out of me announcing the wrong songs a few times.

I may have to consider going back to show view and just singing the same songs  every night,in the past  I found it easy   that way because the colors gave me a clue as to what was next, and you could just place an interval  song after the final song in the set, a ballad in the middle of the first half hour etc, and toggling " song selection plays recording "  works without any fuss.


EDIT

well I wonder after a good nights sleep, is this the way to go, keep using the label view, edit my default titles so that they appear as  a list with interval songs in the beginning,and then add edit my first spot young and then interval tunes, and then my first spot old with interval tunes, this might help with continuity, let's see,


Second edit,
Hi arlo

What you suggested with changing the database names, that's more or less what  I meant and what I have now done,  I have put my  pre show songs in the default group, labeled them with an asterisk so they jump to the front  of the queue,  or 999 so they appear at the end for the interval , so now my list flows better, default all first set songs, blue second set, dark blue rock and roll, purple ballads numerically organized then everything else by alphabet, so I hope I should stop bugging you now,

Have to say it again, just the fact that I can do all this editing without itunes, brilliant


Cheers

Danny

[Sander]

With regards to the "if you played this song yet" tag, it was my understanding that smart list songs do grey out after having played them - but I haven't used smart lists at all to perform so I don't know.

Generally speaking, as a live performer, I think the greatest gains with SLM can be made exactly in the area you mention; live flexibility. Although I have to admit I'm a little stumped as to how to accomplish it. I just think that sometimes it takes a little too long to change songs around, add or remove them, while actually on stage.

[Danny]

Hi sander

I have edited my previous post again mate, and have finally got the app doing everything I want,

I don't think the app greys out songs will check,

As for messing on stage with the pad, it look horrible and kills the illusion that singer without band tries so hard to create, I think this app is brilliant once you figure out what you actually want it to do.

I messed about at first with all of the colors, but you don't work like that, I don't anyway, ultimately my first set  will contain a bit of everything, so I suggest anyone in the throws of doing what I am doing, needs to concentrate on the content and labeling of songs in the default group.

Cheers

Danny

[arlo]

Songs don't automatically change their appearance as you play them, but you can edit your layout and enable the Number Songs option and then you can tap the number for each song as you play it to check it off the list.

The FAQ describes some options for playing a non-fixed set list:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/support/FAQ.html

Danny's situation is challenging because he wants the qualities of a fixed set list plus the qualities of a smart list (access to all songs for a given label) at the same time. He's doing extra work in the setup to create these set lists by renaming songs to control their order in a smart list, and creating duplicate databases to set up different kinds of shows, as a tradeoff for quicker transitions on stage. I'm sorry I don't know a more elegant solution, but I always like seeing people use the app in creative ways. :-)

[Danny]

Hi Arlo

Thanks for the link,



I think it's a sign of a well designed app that you can do so much with the databases and editing, at first I wondered what was the point of songs and recordings? , until you delve deeper in to the app you don't realise  how many benefits this creates, that's what is lousy about people buying this app and rating it immediately.

I have just created a song,  I called it interval, and have added multiple recordings of interval type music and have enabled the multiple recording buttons in the layout,

Right now I have " completed song selects next track" enabled also, so when the first recording ends, the list  on the left of the split screen moves on, I am trying to figure out if I can chain the recordings in the song together somehow?

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af324/kevtylerz/76b6dfc0a1c8f58bdc8d33a460abf0d8_zps4864ce9a.jpg



As for my situation on stage, I am being so pedantic because I have been spoiled by 3 years of having a roadie button pusher ,  people comment and ask how I can sing the request they want without me leaving front of stage, and so the fact that I am coming close to replacing human with an app also speaks volumes for your work Arlo I think,

Many thanks

Danny

[arlo]

Right now I have " completed song selects next track" enabled also, so when the first recording ends, the list  on the left of the split screen moves on, I am trying to figure out if I can chain the recordings in the song together somehow?

There's no option for that, sorry. I'll put it on my wish list, but using one song to play a whole playlist isn't really the purpose of attaching multiple songs, so it's a neat idea but doesn't really fit into the functionality. You would need to create a separate show for your break music, or maybe just switch to iTunes at break time and play a playlist from there.

As for my situation on stage, I am being so pedantic because I have been spoiled by 3 years of having a roadie button pusher ,  people comment and ask how I can sing the request they want without me leaving front of stage, and so the fact that I am coming close to replacing human with an app also speaks volumes for your work Arlo I think,

That's very interesting, thanks!

[Danny]

Thanks Arlo

I know you mentioned a few days ago, maybe putting some larger time value increment buttons on the automation track  edit page,

If I did create an automation track and record the first button push of recording one at zero seconds and then sat through the master mix for twenty minutes and pressed play on the next song well I guess that would work, I don't think I can sit still that long lol.

Re swapping to itunes, It's just a bit awkward flipping through apps, because I take my bow and walk off stage, maybe just need a cheap iPod routed to a pair of faders, that would be simple I think.

Cheers

Dannny