Hello folks. I want to run Luminair to control my simple (6 led cans) stage lighting. Luminair will run on the same iPad as SetList Maker and will wirelessly output to a DMXKing interface connected to the lights. What midi commands would I need to enter into the MSB/LSB fields to run Luminair? For example, if I have created a scene in Luminair, what midi commands would need to be entered into the appropriate fields in SetList Maker?
I can't tell you what messages need to be sent to Luminair - you'd need to check with the manufacturer for that information - but once you know what messages need to be sent we should be able to help you configure Set List Maker to send those messages.
Mykimus
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Set List Maker Technical Support
http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker
Hello Mykimus
Thank you for the response. I will look into it a bit further and see what I can find. There is nothing in the Luminair instruction manual that really says what commands it will accept, at least, not in a language I understand!.
In the Hex Code field in Midi Presets, for one preset, I entered 00. For a second preset, I added 00 1c and for a third preset, 00 1d. These commands changed the lighting scene appropriately. I am not really sure what I have done. I assume 00 is the bank change command and the following two characters the actual preset. But, I am guessing. Can you offer any clarification?
A MIDI message starting with 00 isn't any kind of defined message, so either you were also sending other messages without being aware of it, or the Luminaire is completely "off the map" in terms of following the MIDI spec. Whether it follows the spec or not, its MIDI support should be documented in its user manual or you should be able to ask its tech support for help.
Luminair has a Midi Learn feature. When I press midi learn and then play the Setlist Maker song with the non-defined midi preset, I suspect it is only responding to the midi message it received, regardless of whether it is defined or not. The Luminair manual doesn't offer much information and, while their email responses have been quick, they, too, have not offered much information. I am aware that it is probably me that can't understand the information but, as long as it works, I am happy, even if I have no idea of what I'm doing!
Okay. If you do want to learn how MIDI works, here are some resources:
http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,656.0.html
Hello Arlo. Thank you for the links. I have checked all of these previously but, now that I can do things hands on with the lights, SetList Maker and Luminair, it may make a bit more sense.
When entering midi preset information, in the Program field of the Bank MSB Bank LSB area, I have just been adding a number, anything from 1 to 400. In Luminair, I hit midi learn then start the song in Setlist Maker and it seems to work. Strangely, it will not work where the numbers I am entering are are between something like 124 to 180 or above 386. Other numbers seem to work. When I close Setlist Maker and Luminair down and come back to it later, many of scenes I set up with midi learn are no longer attached to the song but many are. I suspect my numbering system is only randomly working because it is probably not the right way to do it. I'm at a loss. Any suggestions?
Program change numbers only go from 0-127, so I would expect only numbers in that range to work. If you need more than 128 program changes, you can increment the bank number and then start the program numbering over at 0.
This could explain why Luminair doesn't save your numbers -- if you send 128 and then 129, it might convert them both to the maximum value of 127 and one replaces the other. But that's just a guess.
Hello Arlo. That makes perfect sense. I've tried just adding a number from 0-127 in the program field but that only seems to work intermittently. I've tried using hex commands such as b0 00 for a program change and, similarly, it works sometimes. I have contacted Luminair to see what commands the program will accept. Hopefully, that will demystify the process.
From the Luminair supporr team - By default, Luminair only "listens" to a single MIDI channel. If you would like to spread your MIDI messages across multiple channels (therefore giving you a larger amount of messages that are available for use) you can in Luminair's Settings turn the "Listen" channel to "All". You should also set the "Match Saved Channel" option to ON in order to distinguish between commands spread across multiple channels.
In SetList Maker, I have added two midi devices - Luminair on Channel 1 and Luminair on Channel 2. In midi preset 1, I have set the device to Luminair on Channel 1 and added the number 1 in the program field. All seems to work as advertised - the first lighting scene is displayed. In midi preset 2, I have set the device to Luminair on Channel 2 and have added the number 1 in the appropriate program field. When I do a midi learn in Luminair, it defaults to Channel 1 while it should show as Channel 2.
Any clues for this issue that is driving me around the bend?
Why are you trying to use two channels? That seems needlessly complicated.
Using one channel allows me to have 128 midi presets. As Luminair does not use banks, I can think of no other way to add more midi presets. I have tried different variations in the MSB/LSB fields but with no success. I thought perhaps using two channels might be a solution. Obviously, not!
Luminair doesn't support banks? Most products support that if they support program changes. But if that's not the case, then I guess you would need to use multiple channels. When you send a program change on channel 2 versus 1, you can look at the MIDI Status window in Set List Maker to verify that it is sending different messages. If it is, then you would need to ask Luminair why it isn't selecting the channel correctly.
I will check that, thank you Arlo. Luminair definitely does not support banks. Here is some earlier advice I received from tech support - Have you tried using other MIDI Voice messages, such as Note On/Off, Control Change, Program Change? I can't think of any reason you'd be experiencing this with Bank messages, but perhaps it's something we'd need to look into further. I think my recommendation for now would be to try using Note On/Off, Control Change, Program Change messages, if those options are available in Setlist Maker.
Hello Arlo. I have just checked the midi info. In the midi preset I am using, I have the number 1 in the program field of channel 2, and nothing else. When I check the midi activity log, it says that it is sending a whole lot more data than that.
- Midi started
- added port Set List Maker for output
- added port Set List Maker for input
- added port Network Session 1 for input
- added port Network Session 1 for output
- sending data [B0, 00, 00, C0, 01] to port Luminair
- sending data [B1, 20, 00, C1, 01] to port Luminair
- sending data [01] to port Luminair
- sending data [C1, 01] to port Luminair
- sending data [01] to port Luminair
You are definitely sending messages to two different channels (B0 and C0 versus B1 and C1). It might be helpful to rename your two MIDI devices to Luminair 1 and Luminair 2.
I can troubleshoot the extra data if you post a screen shot of the MIDI preset that generated that, or submit a help desk ticket here:
http://helpdesk.arlomedia.com/arlomedia/add.html
Hello Arlo. The two midi devices are named LuminairC1 and LuminairC2. I couldn't do the screen shot but have attached a photo of midi preset 2, which is the example I have been using.
I think I've made some headway. I can assign any midi channel number to any song and, using midi learn in Luminair, the lighting scene gets attached to the song. For example, midi preset 1 is on Channel 1 and triggers scene 1. I try to set the next song to midi preset 2, on Channel 2 with lighting scene 2 but it sets it to Channel 1, scene 1. But, when I set the next song, it sets it as Channel 2, scene 2. So, essentially, it takes two shots to 'stick' the midi preset. In short, song 1 is set to channel 1, scene 1. When I go to set song 2, it also sets as channel 1, scene 1. Then, if I go back to reset song 1, it will set to channel 2, scene 2. Confusing? A little, but at least there is a light at the end of this tunnel.
That doesn't look like the same preset you used when generating the MIDI Status log posted earlier ... or multiple presets generated that. Please show an example of a MIDI Status log that looks incorrect, and the MIDI preset that generated it.
Hello Arlo. What I have found is this. If I add a midi preset to a song then close and restart Setlist Maker, I can add a different preset to another song on any channel with no problems. But, if I don't close down and restart Setlist Maker, when adding a preset to a second song, it takes on the preset for the first song. Perhaps this has something to do with opening and closing of ports. Should I send you a few photos of the midi activity for each of these scenarios?
Please submit a help ticket and include step-by-step instructions to reproduce the problem:
http://helpdesk.arlomedia.com/arlomedia/add.html
Hello Arlo. I have submitted a ticket, as requested. I could not attach two files to the ticket so have added them to this post. It shows the midi presets 1 and 2.
Hello Arlo. I see in the release notes for v5 'Stopped sending a 0 byte if the Raw MIDI field in a MIDI preset contains only empty space'. Has that anything to do with the issue I raised with midi presets and Luminair?
Yes, that addresses the issue where leaving empty spaces in the Raw MIDI field generates the "sending data [01] to port Luminair" message.
Wonderful. Thank you, as always, for your prompt attention to fixing the bugs that users report. I have never encountered customer support as good as you offer.
Ruckman65, I'm just getting started with controlling Luminair from SetList maker and am trying to come up with some way to change lighting Scenes during a song after I've selected the initial Scene via SetList Maker.
Have you found a way to do this, or does your lighting remain the same throughout the song?
Ideally I'd like to select a Sequence within Luminair, and then have it either run automatically or - better yet - advance to the next Scene in the sequence with a foot switch. But this ability seems to require MIDI Show Control, which is a special format not supported by the foot switches I've investigated.
Based on your experience so far, any ideas?
If you create a MIDI preset for each scene in a song, and attach those presets to the song, you can then use a foot switch to either step through the presets in order or select particular presets (if you have enough foot switch buttons). In this setup, your foot switch selects the preset in Set List Maker, and then the preset selects the scene in Luminair.
Hey micklepickle. I don't use sequences with Luminair because it seems a little difficult to get the timing right from the Luminair end. Arlo's suggestion about a foot pedal would probably work but I want everything completely automated. So, what I have done is create a new layout that includes all of my songs and icons for midi, playback and automation. In Luminair, I create all the scenes I may need for a specific song such as intro, verse, chorus, lead break and outro. Then, in SetList Maker, I go to Shows and open the 'Midi Automation' layout i previously created.
Click on the automation icon for the song you want to work on and the 'Record' dialogue opens. The automation icon then flashes orange.
Press the midi icon and the list of midi presets I added to the song are shown.
Press the playback icon and the song starts.
As you get to the appropriate part of each song, press the name of the midi preset in the midi preset dialogue box. This essentially records that preset at that time point.
When the song finishes, click on the automation icon and you will get the Stop command. Click on that.
You may need to edit the timing of the scene changes. You can do that by again pressing the automation icon. You will see options for Play, Record, Edit and Clear. Press Edit.
You will see the timing of each midi automation step you made and can amend as necessary.
I found that I had to do quite a bit of editing to get the timing right and, perhaps because of latency, had to amend the timing of each change by about two seconds to stay in sync with the song. But, it is well worth it. To have the scenes automatically change when we are doing our shows is awesome. Don't have to worry about foot pedals - it is all automated. Simply brilliant!
Let me know if you need further clarification. It took me months to get all of this working properly and, with Arlo's guidance, it is now a very fluid process for me. I hope this saves you some time and a saves you from a lot of frustration.
Nice! I didn't know about the additional automation capabilities in SetList Maker. Looks like I have some (more!) cool features to dig into.
Thanks much, guys. I'll let you know how it works out.
Here's the documentation for the functionality Ruckman described:
http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks
Well, I made great progress the past two days - and then hit a strange wall.
I got Setlist Maker automation up and running for a very small test. I added three MIDI presets to a song, and then tried a 20-second recording. As I hoped, I was able to record and play back the automation sequence.
Then it broke. Now, when I select a song with more than one MIDI preset, the first MIDI command executes on selection, but none of the others will activate. They all show up just fine in the automation window, but nothing happens when I press them (the command doesn't fire and the MIDI icon does not change color). This occurs whether or not I'm recording.
The good news is the link to Luminair is working nicely. When a MIDI command does execute in Setlist Maker, the lights change accordingly.
Except for one thing - which is a low priority anyway. I added an App button to my Layout, which brought up Luminair. But when I pressed the "return to Setlist Maker" button on the Luminair screen, it returned to Setlist Maker as expected, but SM would usually hang. Nothing worked in Setlist Maker. I had to close the app and reload. I tried this several times. But again, not a big deal. Switching apps the old fashioned iPad way worked fine.
I'm happy to get this far though. Thanks to both of you for the tips.
Quote
Now, when I select a song with more than one MIDI preset, the first MIDI command executes on selection, but none of the others will activate. They all show up just fine in the automation window, but nothing happens when I press them (the command doesn't fire and the MIDI icon does not change color).
Please submit a help ticket for this: http://helpdesk.arlomedia.com/arlomedia/
Issue resolved. Thanks for the help, Arlo!
Hey micklepickle. Glad to hear the issue has been resolved. Having the lights work with SetList Maker is like voodoo! How cool is it? I've started running videos into our projector to use on stage as well. SetList Maker has got to be the best app available (maybe closely followed by Luminair!) To have an app change the way you do things on stage for the better is fantastic. I've been a professional musician for almost 40 years and for most of that time, nothing changed. But, with the advent of iPds and SetList Maker, it changes everything for the better.
I have to agree. The power of SetList Maker extends well beyond managing set lists. I'm just getting started with lighting, but also use it send commands to my mixer to set effects for various songs. But even without those "geeky" extensions, I've yet to see a better tool for everyday musicians to manage set lists, chord charts and lyrics. I've been using it for several years and it's my primary tool for both on-stage and practice sessions.