Apps by Arlomedia

How I can simultaneously send Audio over Bluetooth to the Cube and MIDI commands over bluetooth to the AX8 for Scene
changes?

What have you done so far and where did you get stuck?

I have a song with a backing track on my iPhone. The backing track sends audio via bluetooth from the iPhone to the Blackstar Tonelink adaptor (a bluetooth adaptor). The Tonelink is plugged into the Roland Cube 1/8" TRS. The audio comes across great.

To get MIDI to the AX8 wirelessly, I think I will need a bluetooth to MIDI adaptor for the AX8. I also need to add the MIDI triggers into BandHelper for that tune, as I want them to fire to trigger changes on the AX8 for different sections of the tune. I don't know how to do that on the phone.

Is it possible?

I also haven iPad or could try to build an arduino solution. I'll like the simplest (and most cost-effective) thing that could possibly work, but not any simpler.

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To get MIDI to the AX8 wirelessly, I think I will need a bluetooth to MIDI adaptor for the AX8. I also need to add the MIDI triggers into BandHelper for that tune, as I want them to fire to trigger changes on the AX8 for different sections of the tune. I don't know how to do that on the phone.

Yes, you can get a Quicco or Yamaha Bluetooth MIDI adapter. Then you can add MIDI presets for each program change to your songs:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/sending_MIDI.html

Then you can either trigger the MIDI programs manually from the buttons on the screen or a remote control device:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/remote_control.html

Or set up automation tracks to send them automatically at the desired times:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks

I'm buying this, is it the right one?  https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Wireless-5-PIN-MIDI-Adapter/dp/B01CFOHF6U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504291978&sr=8-1&keywords=Yamaha+MD-BT01+Bluetooth+Wireless+MIDI+Adaptor

Quote from: arlo on August 31, 2017, 09:36:16 PM
Yes, you can get a Quicco or Yamaha Bluetooth MIDI adapter. Then you can add MIDI presets for each program change to your songs:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/sending_MIDI.html

So I can I send MIDI data from AX8. So I can avoid the AX8 looper and trigger an MP3 instead. Can BandHelper be programmed loop said MP3 and then stop the MP3 when receiving another MIDI signal? What message?

Quote from: arlo on August 31, 2017, 09:36:16 PMhttp://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks
Or set up automation tracks to send them automatically at the desired times:

This is what I want to do.

So I enter MIDI hex code into "RAW" field? How do I sync that MIDI data with the backing track MP3? Are MIDI triggers accurately synced with the audio?

QuoteControl Change (https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/table-1-summary-of-midi-message#2).
This message is sent when a controller value changes. Controllers include devices such as pedals and levers. Controller numbers 120-127 are reserved as "Channel Mode Messages" (below). (ccccccc) is the controller number (0-119). (vvvvvvv) is the controller value (0-127).

I want BandHelper to change the AX8 from Scene 1 to Scene 2 for the chorus. The chorus will be played by the backing track, so this has to be synced properly. Is switching from Scene 1 to Scene 2 a controller change? And what MIDI code does that? How can I set up the timing for it?

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I'm buying this, is it the right one?

Yes, that's a popular one to use with my apps.

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So I can I send MIDI data from AX8. So I can avoid the AX8 looper and trigger an MP3 instead. Can BandHelper be programmed loop said MP3 and then stop the MP3 when receiving another MIDI signal? What message?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. BandHelper has a basic loop function designed for practice only; it's not sub-second accurate and can't be controlled with MIDI. If you want to perform with audio loops, you'd need a different app for that.

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So I enter MIDI hex code into "RAW" field?

You only need to use the Raw MIDI field to send MIDI messages other than song select messages and program change messages. There are separate fields dedicated to those messages.

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How do I sync that MIDI data with the backing track MP3?

You would start recording an automation track, then play the backing track and click the buttons to send the MIDI presets at the right times. The automation track captures those actions and their timing.

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Are MIDI triggers accurately synced with the audio?

Yes, but if you are playing audio over Bluetooth, that introduces a delay, so you might need to use a wired audio connection. I suppose if you play over Bluetooth while recording the automation track, then any delay would also be captured by the automation timing. But then if you switched to wired later, all the timing would be off. Personally I would use a wired connection unless there's some reason your stage setup doesn't allow that.

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I want BandHelper to change the AX8 from Scene 1 to Scene 2 for the chorus. The chorus will be played by the backing track, so this has to be synced properly. Is switching from Scene 1 to Scene 2 a controller change? And what MIDI code does that?

That depends on the device you're sending to, so you should check the documentation for that product to find out what MIDI messages it needs to receive.

Quote from: arlo on September 01, 2017, 12:34:33 PM
Yes, that's a popular one to use with my apps.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. BandHelper has a basic loop function designed for practice only; it's not sub-second accurate and can't be controlled with MIDI. If you want to perform with audio loops, you'd need a different app for that.

If I can't loop a backing track then I will make a long backing track for that section of the tune over which a solo is performed.  < 5 min work.

That's different from what I was originally asking but this should be useful if I can figure it out how to do it.

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You only need to use the Raw MIDI field to send MIDI messages other than song select messages and program change messages. There are separate fields dedicated to those messages.

You would start recording an automation track, then play the backing track and click the buttons to send the MIDI presets at the right times. The automation track captures those actions and their timing.

I saw the YouTube video for automation and what I see on my screen looks totally different. If you or your QA guy can Skype with me I can pay you some and you can see what is wrong and we can probably get it working for me. I am using iPhone 7 plus. Some oddities there. Crashes sometimes, too.

In AX8, CC messages to trigger scene changes. I'd like to link to that section of manual but it's a PDF. 

QuoteFor SCENE SELECT, the value of the Control Change message determines which Scene is loaded. The easy rule is Scene number -1 = CC# Data Value. (Ex: Scene 1, Value 0).However, values greater than 7 continue to select scenes, in order. To determine the Scene for values >7, add 1 and divide by 8. The REMAINDER is the Scene that will be selected. Ex: 62+1 = 63, 63 ÷ 8 = 7 remainder 7, so 63 loads Scene 7.SCENE INCR and DECR are triggered by CC# data values greater than 63.

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Yes, but if you are playing audio over Bluetooth, that introduces a delay,

I just launched MIDI wrench from my iPhone, connected to my Mac via Audio MIDI setup, and then triggered some disco hits in logic. Every time I tapped the touchscreen keyboard, I heard a sound and I could not detect any latency there.

How can I set up an automation track on BH? Again, what I see on my iPhone looks different from what I see in the video. I don't get it. http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks

That video is three years old. The automation track functionality hasn't changed much since then, but a lot of the rest of the app has. Of course, the iPad interface is different from an iPhone interface, too. If the video is confusing, please try the written instructions, which are always up to date.

I wouldn't expect much latency with wireless MIDI, but Bluetooth audio always has an audible delay in my experience.

If you're seeing problems or especially crashes, please submit a help ticket:

https://helpdesk.arlomedia.com/arlomedia/add.html

Looks like some replies to this thread got deleted.

All the songs I entered into band helper were deleted, too.

I deleted some off-topic posts in this thread.

I don't see any evidence of songs getting deleted. Your account had seven songs in it when I looked at it last week, and it still does. See also: http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1728.msg6702.html#msg6702

It was showing songs (0), with no songs listed there. So I just force-quit and relaunched it and the songs came back like they were before.

Thank you,

 Has anyone been able to get simultaneous audio and MIDO to play using ban helper or any other software?  Please explain. Thank you. 

(Billing notifications kicked in today.)

Yes, lots of people do this. What do you want explained that I haven't already addressed above?

I have seen no evidence of anyone getting this thing to work!

Who here has gotten band helper automation tracks to work iPhone.

What other proven solutions exist for automation tracks on iOS?

Thank you

Probably nobody else is responding because this thread title doesn't ask the question you're now looking for, and the thread itself is long and covers several topics. Here's evidence on this forum of people doing what you want to do:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1525.0.html

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1059.0.html

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,490.0.html

All three of those posts are about set list maker. This is the band helper forum.

Of those posts, none provide explanation of what they did. Those users might have watched the set list maker iPad video. Just learning Bandhelper, that video does not clearly, explicitly show what to do. 

Automation tracks and audio playback are identical between the two products.

If you are stuck setting something up, please explain what you've done so far and what part you got stuck on.

That is not true. First of all, this icon http://www.bandhelper.com/images/screenshots/button_automation.jpg Is missing

Not having that icon to click on is where I'm stuck.

The automation button is in most of the default layouts. What layout are you using?

I am using the app as I downloaded it. I do not know how to change layouts.

After you select a set list or smart list, you have to select a layout to view the set list. What layout are you selecting?

You'll need to use a set list or smart list to access the performance functions like automation tracks. Maybe that's where the misunderstanding is. The Getting Started tutorial will walk you through making a set list:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/getting_started.html

The Performing tutorial describes the functions available when viewing a set list:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html

When I go to Set List, I get an error message about "add layouts from the + button on the top of the Layouts list"

I can view Songs, though.

If you don't have any layouts, you can click Help > Utilities > Load Default Layouts to reinstall the default set.

Where is Help?

(//)

It's the question mark icon in the top toolbar.

Quote from: arlo on October 07, 2017, 02:52:59 PM
If you don't have any layouts, you can click Help > Utilities > Load Default Layouts to reinstall the default set.

I am prevented

This is the second dialog box that I see when I choose load default layouts.That dialogue keeps popping up repeatedly as soon as I close it.

I just added two more weeks to your trial period. (You have two accounts; I applied this to the account that has some songs in it.)

I chose  Utilities > Load Default Layouts.

"That gave me a dialog box "This feature will add any default layouts you don't already have."

[Cancel] [Continue]

I chose continue.

I do not see any automation icon. Where is that?
http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks

What kind of phone do you have?

iPhone 7 Plus

On that phone, the only layout that has the automation button by default is the Split View layout, which only appears in landscape orientation. However, you can add the automation button to any layout by following the instructions here:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/changing_layouts.html

I am in landscape view and looking at songs and I don't see it.

That screen shot shows the Edit Songs page. You need to select a set list, then select the Split View layout to view the set list and the button should be there.

How do I select the Split View Layout? Here's a photo of my set list.

Turn your phone to landscape orientation. The default Split View layout is only available in landscape on phones.

Quote from: arlo on October 14, 2017, 02:45:57 AM
Turn your phone to landscape orientation. The default Split View layout is only available in landscape on phones.

I did. Look at the photo again.

 This is the set list page. This name of the set list is solo. I got there by going to Repertoire >Setlist >solo  > Setlist only.

You previously called this page the Edit songs page.

What I called the Edit Songs page is what you got to by clicking Repertoire >Setlist > Solo > Edit Songs.

I looked at your data on the server and I can see that you do have a Split View layout sized for your iPhone 7 Plus in landscape orientation, so I don't know why you're not seeing it. If you submit a help ticket, then I can look at the data on your device and see if it's there:

https://helpdesk.arlomedia.com/arlomedia/add.html

Alternatively, you can click Settings > Account Sync > Reset Local Data and see if that brings it back.

Or tell me which existing layout you'd most want to use, and I'll add the automation button to it for you.

Quote from: arlo on October 16, 2017, 09:01:01 AM
What I called the Edit Songs page is what you got to by clicking Repertoire >Setlist > Solo > Edit Songs.

I got to that page by going to:— Repertoire > Set List > Solo > • Set List Only

QuoteAlternatively, you can click Settings > Account Sync > Reset Local Data and see if that brings it back.

✅ Done. But where is the automation icon? I don't see it. Photo of "• Set List Only" attached.

QuoteOr tell me which existing layout you'd most want to use, and I'll add the automation button to it for you.

I can't say which I'd prefer because I don't know how layouts work. I'll try whatever you think will work.

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Done. But where is the automation icon? I don't see it. Photo of "• Set List Only" attached.

It's in the Split View layout. Do you see that after resetting the local data? If not, please submit a help ticket so I can provide a higher level of support.

Issue submitted

So I submitted an issue regarding the missing automation icon, so now what?

I replied to your ticket the same day, but I see that there's a typo in the email address you entered, so you didn't receive my reply. I'll correct that and resend my reply.

From your troubleshooting info, I can see that your device has a Split View layout in landscape orientation, with the same specs as the Set List Only - Landscape layout that you showed in your screen shot above (attached again here). The only explanation I can think of for why that wasn't showing before is that you took that screen shot before loading the default layouts, and it is showing there now.

If it's still not showing there now, I'll give you exact instructions for adding an automation button to a different layout. First, tell me if you are intending to view lyrics from your phone while performing, and that will determine what layout we'll use.

No I won't   See   the lyrics While performing.

1. Go to Repertoire > Layouts > More Controls > Edit Layout.
2. Click the Tempo button (metronome icon), then click its close button (X icon) to remove it.
3. Click the empty area where the Tempo button used to be.
4. Select Buttons > Automation Button from the Add Item menu.
5. Drag the icon to line it up with other items if needed.
6. Click the Back button in the top left corner three times to return to the Repertoire menu.
7. Go to Set Lists > [your set list name] > More Controls and select a song.
8. Click and hold the automation button to show its popup menu.
9. Use the recording controls to start a recording, then use the MIDI buttons to send your MIDI presets at the desired times.
10. Click the automation button to stop recording.
11. Click the song list button to show the song list, then select the current song again to reset its audio.
12. Click the automation button to play the automation track. It will start the recording, then send the MIDI presets, at the appropriate times.

I don't see any metronome icon. This is what I see.

It looks like you dragged one of the divider lines up so it's covering the metronome icon. In your screen shot, I can see the metronome icon peeking out from behind the divider line that's selected.

Don't know what you're talking about. It seems to be highly complicated. What do I do?

In your screen shot, look at the dark gray box with a close button on the left and a resize button on the right. That's a divider line that you clicked and dragged upwards. Now look carefully and you'll see a bit of the metronome button peeking out from behind it. It's mostly covered because you dragged the divider line on top of it. You can drag the divider line back down so the metronome icon is fully visible. Then proceed with the steps I sent you.

Arlo, you have the patience of a saint. This is exemplary customer service!

Thanks.  :)

Quote from: arlo on November 07, 2017, 11:30:32 PM
4. Select Buttons > Automation Button from the Add Item menu.

I got this far.  I navigated back to the other location of the app where I thought I was supposed to see it. But I cannot see it.

What can't you see?

There is supposed to be an automation button, right? I put an image of that thing before, when I downloaded from some other portion of this website which was talking about a different application called set list maker which I'm not using (I'm using band helper).

But I don't see anywhere in the application the automation icon. Where is it

In my instructions above, did you do step 3 and did the popup appear to let you choose what button to add?

I remember getting that far and not seeing a tempo button

Here is what I see now: —

You'll have to renew your account before you can do anything else.

Sounds like I need to become a paid member to proceed.