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BandHelper => Repertoire Help => Topic started by: Garethla on April 14, 2018, 11:10:23 AM

Title: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 14, 2018, 11:10:23 AM
Hi Folks,

Does anyone know if Bandhelper will send Midi directly over Lightning through USB Connector (camera kit) ?  I have the ipad connected directly to my Line 6 Helix to change patches as i change songs but it does not appear to be receiving the commands?

Thanks
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 07:20:22 AM
Absolutely....That works perfectly for me with the Helix  , AND brings up all helix audio channels in bandhelper as well
I actually use it without the cable , using a YAMAHA BT-01 Bluetooth midi adapter plugged into the back of the HELIX, which bandhelper sends the prog changes to via bluetooth

Check your Global/Midi settings in HELIX...I have attached a screenshot of mine (both pages)

hope that helps !

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 07:20:43 AM
second midi page
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 15, 2018, 07:27:41 AM
(http://)
Thanks!
Have have those set correctly but thing the midi presets in bandhelper are not correct.
Could you send me a screen shot of one of yours?

Hugely appreciated!, been fighting with this all weekend

Regards
Gareth
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 07:36:33 AM
here ya go..I have moved up from the VOICELIVE3 to the HELIX, so the voicelive refs are the prog changes the helix is now responding to...(they were already in bandhelper from the voicelive gig setup I made)
I just made sure my presets are all in the first bank in the helix  from 000 onwards
have  also worked out how to send SNAPSHOT changes from Bandhelper to Helix which I can help you with if you need it after this bit is working ...that means the helix can switch snapshots during songs...v cool !

this screenshot is the midi PRESETS page setup in bandhelper

Bill P


Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 07:38:08 AM
I think the ZERO is critical (for bank ) ) then the patches increment with the second number
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 15, 2018, 08:00:27 AM
Thanks for your help !

I think i sm missing something fundamental here lol. Does the hex code need to be added like in your screen shot?

I was in bank/setlist 1 and set up Program change exactly like yours. The atached shows the messages being sent but no cigar on helix changing patches%

Would Love to get snapshot changes mid song!(http://)
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 08:14:16 AM
hmm
maybe Arlo will check in here

those hex code numbers went in during my voicelive 3  setup when i set bandhelper to MIDI LEARN ...each preset change puts a different hex code in there
I haven't changed them from then , they just translated to the helix bank 1 .....
maybe worth playing with Midi Learn?
Hopefully Arlo can clarify !
Will see if I can put in writing what I did for setting up snapshots on the helix when I get a chance

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 15, 2018, 08:30:04 AM
Thanks Bill Appreciate it!

Arlo, could you way in ere when you get a chance. I attached a screenshot of the Helis settings for a particular patch. CC32 being the Setlist and the PC being the preset.

Thanks all! dying to get this working now!!!!

Bill, do Mid song Snapshot changes have anything to do with automation tracks in Bandhelper?
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 09:12:26 AM
May have spoken too soon with the snapshot thing LOL
I certainly DID have it working during a test (so its possible) but cant seem to replicate it now

will do some research and let you know when I find what I had before :-)   but basically yes...each snapshot will respond to a midi message which is then added to the automation in bandhelper  to send that mid message at a particular point in the song

Once I iron out the gremlins , will post back !

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 15, 2018, 09:20:24 AM
LOL,, excellent,,, Well I got it working!!!! all it took was to restart Bandhelper for some reason and bang!
In the attached Snapshot for example the Preset changes to Setlist 4 - Preset 4 (1D) Below that, the CC setting controls which snapshot on that preset ...so here i have selected preset 1D which Snapshot 3.....

The only snag is when I change song it only triggers the Program Change, not the CC, if i hit the midi button on bandhelper it then triggers the CC change and changes the snapshot.... I am sure there is some tweaking to fix that . I am sure i saw a setting in Bandhelper that asks what order you want tp send Midi : Program Changes; CC's....

But delighted to at least have the one thing working! Its going to reduce my toe tapping between songs immensely.
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 09:31:09 AM
Good work!!  ...seems you have also nearly cracked the snapshot issue at the same time !


will try your findings to see if that solves the snapshot issue  ( if the CC issue can be sorted)

cheers

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 15, 2018, 09:39:10 AM
I will keep trying as well.. there must be a way!

Cheers
Gareth
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 15, 2018, 11:01:44 AM
Just had a play..... looks to me like helix is ignoring the cc 69 value (snapshot) when forced to a program changed by bandhelper , it just happens to change to whatever snapshot was saved with the preset.....
A puzzle indeed .... 

BP
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 15, 2018, 11:12:46 AM
Yep, weird .
If you add the midi button to your layout you can...
- select a song which changes the patch
- then hit the midi button on that song and it triggers the CC change to change the snapshot but for the life of me i cannot get both to trigger once a song is selected.

On the plus side i have been playing with the Automation feature and it works to trigger midi events mid song! Only tested it without helix connected will run tests tomorrow
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: iguana on April 16, 2018, 07:28:08 AM
Just had a play..... looks to me like helix is ignoring the cc 69 value (snapshot) when forced to a program changed by bandhelper , it just happens to change to whatever snapshot was saved with the preset.....
A puzzle indeed .... 

BP

I use BH on a Droid to control my Helix, and I also had an issue trying to select a snapshot on preset load. Keep in mind that the Helix has a short delay when loading a new preset. It seems that the CC69 can before the Helix is finished switching presets, and gets ignore (or simply does not have an effect).

The solution was to add a delay between sending the PC and the CC. In BH, go into MIDI settings and change  the
second "...with Delay Between" value to 0.2
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 16, 2018, 07:44:40 AM
Brilliant thanks. Makes sense I will give it a go this evening! That helix delay explains why the CC69 works if I hit the Mid button after the preset has changed. Look forward to testing this!
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: arlo on April 16, 2018, 09:05:24 AM
The Raw MIDI messages that appeared when using MIDI Learn are all undefined in the MIDI spec except the last one, which is General Purpose Slider 2. So I don't know what those are, but it sounds like they're not needed.
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 16, 2018, 09:08:40 AM
Thanks Iguana

just tried this and it NEARLY works.... I tried various delays in sending the CC , and I can see helix actually switching to the snapshot sent by th ecc69 value  , but then immediately flicking back to the one stored with the preset as before....
this sounds like a helix setting that needs to be changed....any ideas?

ARLO  thanks for that ...weird.... anyway I've started again and removed all the raw midi data and preset changing does still work, its just the CC problem to solve now :)

thanks again

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 16, 2018, 10:37:54 AM
Brilliant, It Works,,, adding the 2m/s delay did the trick. Thanks Iguana!

Bill,,,, be sure to use the bottom delay setting. (there are two)
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 16, 2018, 12:24:14 PM
Well thats REALLY odd..mine is flicking back to the program stored snapshot...I wonder if its a setting I have differently on the Helix...will investigate tomorrow !

good its working for you though ! !!

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 16, 2018, 12:31:28 PM
Weird. I can’t think of any in helix that would cause that other than the Snapshot Discard Changes setting.

One other thing I change was the Midi Preset Order which I doubt makes a difference. I have Program Change 1st and Controller Change last (4th)
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 16, 2018, 12:33:32 PM
hmmm I DO have discard changes , but will also play with the order-   CC is second currently for me
will report back !

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: iguana on April 16, 2018, 09:47:20 PM
wakevortex,

If you can log your MIDI, it might shed some light.

But, I suspect you are sending the PC message a second time. There's nothing on the Helix that would cause that behavior. (The Discard Changes setting - either way - wouldn't cause that.)
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 17, 2018, 12:43:35 AM
Eureka

it was indeed the position  of the CC change in the Midi Preset Order  sent by band helper

moving it from 2nd to 4th fixed it -     PC 1st  CC Last  as Garethia had done....how odd !

Well its working now LOLOL

thanks guys  !  - now for some automation programming ! :-)

Bill P
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: Garethla on April 17, 2018, 04:56:47 AM
Excellent!

Some great forum collaboration!

Thanks for your help folks. Appreciate it!
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: arlo on April 17, 2018, 08:20:09 AM
Quote
it was indeed the position  of the CC change in the Midi Preset Order  sent by band helper
moving it from 2nd to 4th fixed it -     PC 1st  CC Last  as Garethia had done....how odd !

If there's no raw data in your preset and no other presets attached to it, that shouldn't matter ... but if there are, that would extend the delay between the program change and the control change, because the "with delay between" setting is inserted after each element in the list. So that might be telling us that a longer delay than the .2 seconds mentioned above is needed between the program change and control change.
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: wakevortex on April 18, 2018, 12:49:53 AM
That’s Odd Arlo , as I started again and there is NO raw midi data...simply a PC and a CC ....i did spot that after setting the delay, a restart of the app was necessary for it to “pick up “ the new value .  Anyway it works now, and thats the main thing :-)

Bill p
Title: Re: iPad sending Midi over Lightning?
Post by: arlo on April 19, 2018, 03:33:46 AM
I just checked and those changes should take effect as soon as you navigate from the settings page to one of the pages where you send MIDI.  ???