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Set List Maker => MIDI Help => Topic started by: GuyM on September 09, 2014, 05:52:29 AM

Title: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 09, 2014, 05:52:29 AM
Hi sorry if this has been asked before...

Having got my FCB1010 MIDI Pedal Controller working nicely with SLM, I find it is simply too big to have under foot with all my other keyboard pedals  :(

What I would ideally like is a small 'pad' based configurable 4?? button MIDI controller sat on the keyboard (Right) and pressed by hand ..BUT....it has to talk to my Behringer iStudio (where the iPad is docked) via the iStudio's std. MIDI IN socket!!

Any ideas / recommendations?
Guy
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: Christoph on September 09, 2014, 03:11:00 PM
How about iRig's Blue Board? (http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigblueboard/) It connects directly via Bluetooth to your iOS device and Arlo has already tested it successfully (http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,484.0.html). If it is merely for remote controlling SLM, have a look at the Airturn Digit (http://www.airturn.com/digit/products/airturn/bluetooth-airturn/airturn-digit) or Digit II (http://www.airturn.com/digit-ii/products/airturn/bluetooth-airturn/digit-ii), small handheld Bluetooth remote controllers. On the other hand, if it has to be a standard MIDI cable connection, you could use something like the Alesis PercPad (http://alesis.com/percpad) or the Akai MPX8 (http://www.akaipro.com/product/mpx8), both of them have MIDI Outs. User Joe_K (http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php?action=profile;u=346) also has experience (http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,641.0.html) with the small FCB4X (http://www.peak2005.com/j/midi-foot-controllers/23--fcb4x-programmable-midi-foot-controller-with-blue-lcd.html) MIDI controller.
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: arlo on September 09, 2014, 04:07:00 PM
The BlueBoard is pretty small, but the buttons are designed to be stepped on and might be too difficult for quick actions using your hands. You can't just tap the buttons, you have to really push them.
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: Joe_K on September 09, 2014, 06:26:17 PM
That's a tough one.  The Keith McMillen controllers are pretty small (for the number of buttons) and I've heard they are easy to use by hand:

www.keithmcmillen.com

If it was something to sit next to the keyboard, his QuNeo might be the ticket while it also opens up other creative possibilities.  Also, on the floor, check out how small and thin his SoftStep controller really is.  Might be something you can stack above another foot controller.

The afore  mentioned Peak controllers (www.peak2005.com) are small and powerful, but clearly meant as foot controllers and the switches do travel a fair distance.  However, the switches are very easy to press, not stiff or clicky.  Maybe you can put some sort of rubberized covering over the switches that decrease their travel and make them easier to press?

Also, I very much like the suggestion of a drum pad controller.  I think there are various hand-based edrum controllers that can send MIDI.

If you are going to end up spending too much money for a new controller, how about an iPod Touch?  Run an instance of SLM on there and have it link with your iPad.  I haven't done the link yet with two instances of SLM, but it sounds intriguing.  I'm sure Arlo likes this idea :-)  Also, there are various MIDI Control apps you can run on an iPod and hook it up via MIDI if wireless isn't an option.





Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 10, 2014, 12:02:08 AM
Yes, I thought about the iRig setup but doesn't this rely on having the iRig connector plugged into the iPad Power/input port...this is where the iStudio is docking the iPad so is not available to me....???

I can try hunt down various MIDI drum pad controllers with a std MIDI OUIT but only if the pads can be configured to send out cc 80-83 out (so that SLM can use them to action NEXT or PREV MIDI PRESET and so forth

The Bluetooth stuff does sound interesting .,.the AIRTURN digts.nice..and looks like can these be configured in SLM to do the 4 things I need it to control i.e. NEXT/PREV MIDI PRESET & NEXT/PREV SONG/ - -  must admit I have not looked much at the Remote control Bluetooth section as the iStudio always sent me towards investigating MIDI IN Control !

Has this device been determined as officially compatible with SLM?

I assume that the BT105 Digit needs no other device attaching to the iPad etc ?? so its just BLUETOOTH only (controller to  iPad?) and the AirTurn DIGIT II too?...

Wonder which might be best? I do not want to spend lots to find I have no need of half the features...will the DIGIT II (Cheaper) version suffice?

Ta
Guy
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: arlo on September 10, 2014, 12:25:12 AM
Quote
I can try hunt down various MIDI drum pad controllers with a std MIDI OUIT but only if the pads can be configured to send out cc 80-83 out (so that SLM can use them to action NEXT or PREV MIDI PRESET and so forth

Set List Maker can also respond to note messages, which the Alesis PercPad and I expect other drum controllers can send.

Quote
The Blue tooth stuff does sound interesting .,.the AIRTURN digts...can these be configured in SLM to do the 4 things I need it to control?

Yes, the AirTurn devices can control almost everything that a MIDI device can control. You can go into the Settings > Remote Control page and tap the options for the different input messages that Set List Maker can receive, and see the list of actions that each message can trigger.
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 10, 2014, 12:28:45 AM
Hi Arlo
For my needs as outlined will the cheaper Airturn Digit II be fine?
Guy
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: Joe_K on September 10, 2014, 01:03:04 AM
Set List Maker can also respond to note messages, which the Alesis PercPad and I expect other drum controllers can send.

Yes, I've had my share of experience with drum controllers and they should all be sending out notes.

What about something like this at $120?
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KTMP1?adpos=1o2&creative=55270738441&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CK2ZrPaW1sACFUVo7AodPAUAYQ

4 pads, mounting brackets .. could be a good fit.
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 10, 2014, 01:13:58 AM
Hi Joe_K

I think it might be a bit big...I do have a Roland Sample Pad which I could use to send out Midi note messages but again too big I feel!

the Airturn Bluetooth hand held devices look like the ticket to me...will explore those first I think and report back!

Ta for all the help!

Guy
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: Joe_K on September 10, 2014, 01:14:33 AM
What about looking at dedicated DAW transports?  I was thinking something like this (the buttons send out Notes according the small manual I found):
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/bibuxton/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=92

Unfortunately, that product would need to be found used as I don't think are made anymore (and I didn't find anything used either).  Maybe a modern equivalent?  I looked, but most including a channel fader or a job wheel as well.

Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: arlo on September 10, 2014, 01:48:47 AM
For my needs as outlined will the cheaper Airturn Digit II be fine?

I can't see any difference in the product descriptions and I even asked AirTurn a couple times and didn't get an answer. But I talked to another user who has both and he said the Digit II is smaller, more responsive and includes a button to toggle the on-screen keyboard for text entry. However, Set List Maker only supports 4 of its 5 buttons compared to all five of the Digit buttons.
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 10, 2014, 01:58:36 AM
Thanks Arlo
I think the cheaper option is ok for now as I only have 4 button requirements
The 5th might have been nice for NEXT Page...but I can do without I think for £30!

So long as Up, Down, Left & Right are there I can map these

UP = Next MIDI PRESET
DOWN = PREV MID PRESET
LEFT = PREV SONG
RIGHT = NEXT SONG

Which Button on there is NOT available to SLM?



Ta
Guy
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 10, 2014, 05:47:27 AM
Now I am considering BLUETOOTH...are there any iPhone apps that allow me to send UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT messages to the iPad ...as I have both

Does the iPhone have to be a 'hotspot' for this to work or wll it just connect together with the iPad?

AND can all this work whilst SLM is being used foremost?

Just a thought...

Guy
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: arlo on September 10, 2014, 10:01:05 AM
Which Button on there is NOT available to SLM?

The center button.
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 13, 2014, 09:54:31 AM
The Digit II arrived today
Got it working nicely..points to note..

1. If the DIGIT II is paired and working, the iPad Editor KEYBOARD goes not pop up. So edits have done to be when DIGIT is Switched off

2. I noticed that when I have a song with 2 MIDI PRESETS in and use the digit to NEXT (or PREV) MIDI PRESET, in my Set Perform layout, page the 2 MIDI preset icons (I have them at the bottom of page) are visibly switched when the button is pressed (i.e. one lights up and then the other....back and forth) however, the MIDI ICONs that is are visible in the side (SONG)  bar do not do so at the same time, which is a bit confusing!

3. it is sooooo SMALL! I thought it would be a bit bigger...had to velcro it to the keyboard top!

However, for my purposes, it does work well
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: arlo on September 13, 2014, 01:18:27 PM
Quote
1. If the DIGIT II is paired and working, the iPad Editor KEYBOARD goes not pop up. So edits have done to be when DIGIT is Switched off

Some AirTurn products have a button or switch to quickly power-cycle the device, which triggers the on-screen keyboard to appear; I don't know about this one. Also, in the upcoming Set List Maker 4.0.6, you can use the keyboard button in the top toolbar to disable the AirTurn and trigger the on-screen keyboard to appear.

Quote
2. I noticed that when I have a song with 2 MIDI PRESETS in and use the digit to NEXT (or PREV) MIDI PRESET, in my Set Perform layout, page the 2 MIDI preset icons (I have them at the bottom of page) are visibly switched when the button is pressed (i.e. one lights up and then the other....back and forth) however, the MIDI ICONs that is are visible in the side (SONG)  bar do not do so at the same time, which is a bit confusing!

The app assumes that you only have one set of MIDI buttons on the screen at a time, so it just sends the updates to the first set that it finds and stops there. Maybe you could save some screen space by just using one set of buttons or the other?
Title: Re: Recommendations for SMALL MIDI Controller?
Post by: GuyM on September 14, 2014, 05:35:55 AM
1. Excellent! Though not a problem really now I know
2. Could do, I think the ones in the song bar are more visible so maybe take the others out of my page layout