Apps by Arlomedia

Set List Maker => Other Help => Topic started by: Joe_K on March 16, 2015, 09:18:53 AM

Title: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: Joe_K on March 16, 2015, 09:18:53 AM
I've been using SLM in my own rig for a while now and it works great.  We've discussed having the rest of the band sync off of my database and also having my SLM instance controlling the song changes for all of us on stage (I remote control my song changes via a MIDI foot controller based on a predetermined set list or "show").

To make this as painless as possible for everyone, can I get some guidance on how best to proceed?  Which in-app purchases are necessary on each device in order for 2 other band members to sync with my database and be controlled remotely from my unit?  Are there pitfalls?  If the set list is being created minutes before a show, is there any difficulty getting everyone synced in time to hit the stage?  Can everyone have their own layouts and metronome options?  How much overriding can be done by the individual instances of SLM?  I'm a heavy MIDI user and I also switch between a lot of MIDI presets within a song.  Will that interfere with anyone else if they also want to try using SLM as a MIDI controller for their own rig?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: arlo on March 16, 2015, 09:46:56 AM
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To make this as painless as possible for everyone, can I get some guidance on how best to proceed?

You first have to sync your databases, then you can set up device linking for remote control. Instructions are on these pages:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/synchronizing_databases.html
http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/linking_devices.html

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Which in-app purchases are necessary on each device in order for 2 other band members to sync with my database and be controlled remotely from my unit?

All devices need the database sync option, and the master device needs the device linking upgrade:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/support/upgrades.html

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Are there pitfalls?

The device linking functionality has changed a lot in the last couple months due to changes in iOS. I'm still working out some issues, including several improvements in the next app update that I'm submitting to the app stores today.

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If the set list is being created minutes before a show, is there any difficulty getting everyone synced in time to hit the stage?

Database syncing requires an Internet connection, so you'd only be able to do this at a show if each device can get on the Internet there.

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Can everyone have their own layouts and metronome options?

Yes.

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How much overriding can be done by the individual instances of SLM?

I need a more specific question.

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I'm a heavy MIDI user and I also switch between a lot of MIDI presets within a song.  Will that interfere with anyone else if they also want to try using SLM as a MIDI controller for their own rig?

Anyone who wants to use their own MIDI presets would need to turn off Settings > Database Sync > Sync Contents > MIDI Data.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: Joe_K on March 16, 2015, 10:54:45 AM
You first have to sync your databases, then you can set up device linking for remote control. Instructions are on these pages:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/synchronizing_databases.html
http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/linking_devices.html

Thanks, those links explained a lot.  Especially how synchronization occurs.  Very Source Control like.  Part of my concern was dealing with merge conflicts and how that gets handled.

All devices need the database sync option, and the master device needs the device linking upgrade:

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/support/upgrades.html

The device linking functionality has changed a lot in the last couple months due to changes in iOS. I'm still working out some issues, including several improvements in the next app update that I'm submitting to the app stores today.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after reading the articles, I have two choices:

1.  Use Screen Sharing.  This does not require the Database Sync option, but is the slower, brute force way of sharing, and no one can include their own settings.
2.  Use Remote Control.  This requires the Database Sync option and that all devices are in sync.  It's less resource intensive and possibly more reliable.

Within either option I have the choice for Bluetooth or WiFi.  Bluetooth doesn't require any extra networking gear, but WiFi is more reliable and/or faster.  Do you have any info on the average effective range of bluetooth.  Do you feel it is adequate for a 4 piece band using 3 or 4 devices on a small/medium sized stage?

Anyone who wants to use their own MIDI presets would need to turn off Settings > Database Sync > Sync Contents > MIDI Data.

In this case, will each device store it's own MIDI data on the sync server for backup, or will only one device's MIDI data be stored on the sync server for each database?  Is there any provision for partitioning data per device, or does everything have to be resolved in merge conflicts before being committed to the database for future syncronization?  I'm guessing no, that choosing to NOT sync MIDI Data means that the device will neither pull or push their MIDI configurations, but I'm ready to be surprised considering how much thought you've put into this software.  (EDIT:  Okay, I just saw the note in the software config screen for linking and it says a device's data will be backed up even if it is not set to sync that data.  Impressive).

If one device is a slave, can it still choose to NOT sync contents like MIDI Data, or are they forced into receiving everything?
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: arlo on March 16, 2015, 02:35:21 PM
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1.  Use Screen Sharing.  This does not require the Database Sync option, but is the slower, brute force way of sharing, and no one can include their own settings.
2.  Use Remote Control.  This requires the Database Sync option and that all devices are in sync.  It's less resource intensive and possibly more reliable.

Correct.

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Within either option I have the choice for Bluetooth or WiFi.

If you're using iOS 8, Bluetooth is very inconsistent and wi-fi is probably the only realistic option.

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If one device is a slave, can it still choose to NOT sync contents like MIDI Data, or are they forced into receiving everything?

I don't understand the question; can you give more detail?
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: Joe_K on March 16, 2015, 08:07:26 PM
I don't understand the question; can you give more detail?

You set a device to be a slave with the "Read Only Database" option, right?  Everything regarding pulling a sync is the same? (ie:  The client can choose to not retrieve MIDI data, Notes, etc).  When I read "master/slave" in the link you posted, I had the impression that it was something else, but it's really just keeping the client from being able to make changes and write back to the synchronization database.

Is the option for "Read Only Database" configurable only by the client, or can a database determine who the read-only participants are?
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: arlo on March 16, 2015, 08:54:14 PM
I only use the master/slave terminology when talking about device linking. Database syncing is designed to allow anyone to make changes, but the Read Only Database option prevents someone from making changes on that device. That setting is voluntary in the sense that it is under the control of the device's owner. If you need the ability to control users' write access from an administrator account, BandHelper has that capability.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: Joe_K on March 17, 2015, 08:09:22 AM
I was basing my use of those terms on this statement from the Database Syncing document link above:  "You can set up "master" and "slave" relationships between your devices with the Settings > General Settings > Read Only Database option."

Moving on, I synced my local database with the server for the first time and I gave out the info to the band members.  The first has come back saying he receives an error:  "You cannot sync your local data with an existing sync name".

I haven't gotten any details from him yet.  What should I look at first?  Is he trying to use a database on his device that already has data in it? Thanks.

Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: arlo on March 17, 2015, 08:32:06 AM
Yes, he probably tried syncing from the Sample Database. He'd need to create a new, empty database and sync from that.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: Joe_K on March 17, 2015, 12:53:17 PM
Thanks.  That's all it was.  Hoping the Bluetooth will work out for us, but if not, do you have any suggestions for a cheap, small WiFi router that we can mount in the rack easily?

We have one of the new QSC TouchMix consoles and we all connect our iPhones to its WiFi in order to control our own monitor mixes.  I'm wondering if we can piggyback off of that WiFi and communicate with each other, I don't know if the comm channel will allow peer-to-peer.  It was the QSC hitting the scene that got everyone to put their iPhones on stage and is allowing me to explore more SLM usage in the band.  It has already become indispensable for me.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: arlo on March 17, 2015, 01:20:34 PM
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Thanks.  That's all it was.  Hoping the Bluetooth will work out for us, but if not, do you have any suggestions for a cheap, small WiFi router that we can mount in the rack easily?

I have a few different routers here, but they're older and probably no longer available. This is the current top seller on Amazon -- I'll order one today and test it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FWYGJS/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001FWYGJS&linkCode=as2&tag=setlist-20&linkId=VJK4SLUZ4TWPFQXR

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We have one of the new QSC TouchMix consoles and we all connect our iPhones to its WiFi in order to control our own monitor mixes.  I'm wondering if we can piggyback off of that WiFi and communicate with each other, I don't know if the comm channel will allow peer-to-peer.

I don't know, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try it.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: Joe_K on March 17, 2015, 10:33:07 PM
Thanks.  That's so cheap, I just remembered I used to have one of the earlier versions of that when it was about $25 I think.  Just for a temporary thing, I wonder if I can still find it.  Anyway, I'll buy that one if you like it.
Title: Re: Help moving forward with synced iPhones
Post by: arlo on March 31, 2015, 02:55:11 AM
The TP-LINK router worked for me out of the box. Here's a tutorial with instructions and a couple improvements you can make to the default settings:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,951.0.html