MIDI Remote Control - BeatBuddy

[scorc042]

Hi Guys, hoping someone can help with my situation.

I have the following set-up:
BandHelper > Yamaha MD-BT01 wireless Bluetooth MIDI adapter > BeatBuddy > Ditto X4 Looper > Midi-Thru > MD-BT01

I use BandHelper to send LSB and program changes to change songs on the BeatBuddy automatically when I select a song from my BandHelper setlist. What I want to do (and sort of succeeded), is to have BandHelper receive remote control commands from BeatBuddy, specifically when I trigger the outro to a song, it ends and the MIDI stop command FC(0) is sent out by the BeatBuddy, I want this to trigger the "Next Song" action in BandHelper (I did set this option in the remote control module within BandHelper) so I can transition a bit more fluidly instead of having to take my hands off my guitar and manually hit next song in BandHelper on my iPhone.

The problem I am having is that there is some sort of loop happening (I think), where I select a song in BandHelper, then it rapidly keeps going to the next song, and BeatBuddy keeps jumping to those songs until it stalls.

At one point trying to figure it out, it was skipping until reaching a song in my setlist with no midi preset attached, and basically, if I started by selecting the song before that in my setlist, the BeatBuddy would change to the song, wait for me to press it to start and play through the song, and then when it finished BandHelper would move to the next song in the setlist (the one without a MIDI preset) when it received the stop command (how I want it to work).

I took snapshots of some of the midi BandHelper was receiving/sending out to attach and hopefully help. I've gotten good at programming midi beats for the BeatBuddy, but this is a whole other level of MIDI .

[arlo]

Your screen shots don't show one complete cycle of the loop, but it sounds like the BeatBuddy sends an FC (stop) message when it changes songs. So, you tell the BeatBuddy to stop, it sends FC, that tells BandHelper to select the next song, that tells BeatBuddy to select the next song, BeatBuddy sends another FC and the cycle continues. Is that what you're seeing in the activity log?

You could more easily test this by temporarily turning off BandHelper's remote control action to select the next song from an FC message. Then stop a loop on the BeatBuddy, and change songs on the BeatBuddy, and see if both actions send out an FC message.

If you are changing songs while a loop is still playing, then it would make sense that the BeatBuddy would send an FC at that point. If you are changing songs while the BeatBuddy is idle, then the FC seems redundant, and while it shouldn't cause a problem in most situations, it would ruin your plan here. You could ask BeatBuddy to change that behavior, but I don't know how often they release firmware updates.

But please check first to verify if that is indeed what's creating the loop.

[scorc042]

That's part of my problem, I'm not sure what I'm even seeing in the activity log/screenshots to be honest, but that cycle certainly sounds logical given the behaviour I'm seeing.

There is only the one screenshot where I even see an FC received by BandHelper. In order to capture the proper log, do I open that log and then perform the physical actions for a live feed (which doesn't seem to happen) or open the log right after the physical actions?

I will check on the BeatBuddy forums if BeatBuddy does, in fact, send out an FC when a new song is selected, and update when I know. Thanks for the prompt response!

[arlo]

The activity will be logged whether the popup window is open or not, so it doesn't matter when you open it. You can copy and paste its complete contents rather than taking screen shots, to get the whole thing. It looks like the BeatBuddy is sending F8 (beat clock) messages, which fills up the log quickly, so you will have to scroll a lot to see the relevant messages.

[scorc042]

So I haven't received a helpful response on the BeatBuddy forum yet, I tried turning off the beat clock sync to clean up the messages in the Midi log:
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [08]
- forwarded message 8 and value 0
- received data [08]
- forwarded message 8 and value 0
- received data [08]
- forwarded message 8 and value 0
- sending data [B0, 20, 02, C0, 04] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- sending data [B0, 20, 02, C0, 04] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- sending data [B0, 20, 02, C0, 04] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Songi
- received data [08]
- forwarded message 8 and value 0
- received data [08]
- forwarded message 8 and value 0
- received data [08]
- forwarded message 8 and value 0

It would seem like every time a new song is selected the BeatBuddy does indeed output an FC which triggers the next song and the cycle to repeat, unless I'm mistaken? Other than the FC messages I'm not sure what any of the rest of the Midi messages capture here mean.

[arlo]

It's not totally clear from the log, because the messages seem to be bunched up rather than sequential, and the outgoing MIDI from the song selection is the same each time.

Can you temporarily turn off BandHelper's remote control action to select the next song from an FC message? Then stop a loop on the BeatBuddy, and change songs on the BeatBuddy (either from the BeatBuddy itself or from a song selection action in BandHelper), and see if both actions send out an FC message.

[Rainer]

Hi folks,

I have another question about the MIDI-Remote-Control from SetList Maker to BeatBuddy.

I'm using SetlistMaker with an iPad, connectet via iRig Midi 2 with my BeatBuddy. My goal: call a song from my setlist, and thereby a midi-preset will change the settings of my BeatBuddy. It took some hours, but now I can built commands to get the right genre (e.g. Rock), the right drumbeat (e.g. Rock 1) and the right tempo.

Now my QUESTION: how can I get the right Drumset??

I'm only able to use MSB, LSB and Program. I have no idea about using Hex-Code, but I think, that would be the solution?
Can anybody help, please?

Greetings, Rainer

[scorc042]

Rainer, the BeatBuudy Midi manual shows "Select a specific drumset" as Control Change (CC) 116, then says value (1-127).

I have tested, you have to input the following Hex Code:
B0 74 03

Where the B0 sends the message to all Midi channels (You could use B1 if you wanted to send to channel 1 only, if I understand this correctly).

The 74 is the CC116 converted to hexidecimal.

Then the 03 is the particular drum set, don't forget to use 00 for your first drum set, 01 for your second etc.

[scorc042]

It's not totally clear from the log, because the messages seem to be bunched up rather than sequential, and the outgoing MIDI from the song selection is the same each time.

Can you temporarily turn off BandHelper's remote control action to select the next song from an FC message? Then stop a loop on the BeatBuddy, and change songs on the BeatBuddy (either from the BeatBuddy itself or from a song selection action in BandHelper), and see if both actions send out an FC message.

After trying this it would appear the BeatBuddy is in fact sending out an FC message when the song is changed. Thanks for your help Arlo, time to contact the BeatBuddy support team directly.

[arlo]

Okay, good luck.

[scorc042]

So I heard back from BeatBuddy support, it should not be sending anything out when a song is changed.

Based on the following log I sent them, he thought it seemed as if BandHelper is sending the stop command in addition to the program change to the BeatBuddy, and the BeatBuddy passes it on forward back to BandHelper and then BandHelper sends both messages again, and it continues in a cycle.

I do have the BeatBuddy set in Midi-Out mode (and not Merge or Thru) so I didn't think it would pass on BandHelper messages back to BandHelper, but could this be the issue? OR is could BandHelper somehow be receiving its own messages?

- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- sending data [B0, 20, 08, C0, 06] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- sending data [B0, 20, 08, C0, 06] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [02, 02, 18, 08]
- forwarded message 2 and value 2
- sending data [B0, 20, 09, C0, 02] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- sending data [B0, 20, 09, C0, 02] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- sending data [B0, 20, 00, C0, 09] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- sending data [B0, 20, 00, C0, 09] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- received data [FC]
- forwarded message 252 and value 0
- triggered action Next Song
- sending data [B0, 20, 03, C0, 02] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- sending data [B0, 20, 03, C0, 02] to port MD-BT01 Bluetooth
- received data [FC]
- MIDI input is not used on this page
- received data [FC]
- MIDI input is not used on this page
- received data [03, 02, 04, 04, 02, 18, 08]
- MIDI input is not used on this page

[arlo]

The only times BandHelper would send a stop (FC) message would be if you added that to the Raw MIDI field of a MIDI preset, or if you started and stopped a tempo with the built-in tempo button while the MIDI Beat Clock option was on. In either case, you'd see "sending data [FC]" in the log, so I don't think that's happening. The only messages your log shows BandHelper sending are program changes.

I asked this earlier...

Can you temporarily turn off BandHelper's remote control action to select the next song from an FC message? Then stop a loop on the BeatBuddy, and change songs on the BeatBuddy (either from the BeatBuddy itself or from a song selection action in BandHelper), and see if both actions send out an FC message.

...and you said you tried it and concluded that "the BeatBuddy is in fact sending out an FC message when the song is changed." What exactly did you see that led you to that conclusion? I think you're right, I just want to know what you saw to help confirm that.

If you want to be completely sure BandHelper isn't the problem, you can force-quit it and open a different MIDI logging app like MIDI Wrench. Then change songs on the BeatBuddy when it's not playing, and see if the FC message appears in the log of that app.

[scorc042]

Sorry for the delay, busy weekend.

I had just seen all the FC's and figured that's what was happening based on the activity, but to be honest I wasn't too positive which direction that log was recording because I wasn't seeing it happen live.

I managed to download the Midi Wrench app and confirm the BeatBuddy is outputting not one but two FC's and some other stuff when you switch songs on it (as you'll see in the screenshot).

I started a song, then stopped it. Then switched songs with the footswitch and the rest was output.

Thanks for all the help and looking into this, guess I'll be waiting for a BeatBuddy update to fix this! Don't suppose there's a workaround in the meantime where I could get the BandHelper App to ignore incoming Midi for a matter of seconds?

[arlo]

No, but if you're contacting BeatBuddy again, you could ask them if there is another MIDI message it could be configured to send at the right time to accomplish what you want.

Hopefully they can just eliminate the extraneous message.

[scorc042]

The latest beta firmware just released for the BeatBuddy and fixed this, I have it working as intended!