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Author Topic: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI  (Read 4643 times)

Burgenoff

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Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« on: August 31, 2017, 10:42:21 AM »
How I can simultaneously send Audio over Bluetooth to the Cube and MIDI commands over bluetooth to the AX8 for Scene
changes?

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 01:58:34 PM »
What have you done so far and where did you get stuck?

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 03:55:17 PM »
I have a song with a backing track on my iPhone. The backing track sends audio via bluetooth from the iPhone to the Blackstar Tonelink adaptor (a bluetooth adaptor). The Tonelink is plugged into the Roland Cube 1/8" TRS. The audio comes across great.

To get MIDI to the AX8 wirelessly, I think I will need a bluetooth to MIDI adaptor for the AX8. I also need to add the MIDI triggers into BandHelper for that tune, as I want them to fire to trigger changes on the AX8 for different sections of the tune. I don't know how to do that on the phone.

Is it possible?

I also haven iPad or could try to build an arduino solution. I'll like the simplest (and most cost-effective) thing that could possibly work, but not any simpler.

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 09:36:16 PM »
Quote
To get MIDI to the AX8 wirelessly, I think I will need a bluetooth to MIDI adaptor for the AX8. I also need to add the MIDI triggers into BandHelper for that tune, as I want them to fire to trigger changes on the AX8 for different sections of the tune. I don't know how to do that on the phone.

Yes, you can get a Quicco or Yamaha Bluetooth MIDI adapter. Then you can add MIDI presets for each program change to your songs:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/sending_MIDI.html

Then you can either trigger the MIDI programs manually from the buttons on the screen or a remote control device:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/remote_control.html

Or set up automation tracks to send them automatically at the desired times:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 12:19:48 PM »
I'm buying this, is it the right one?  https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Wireless-5-PIN-MIDI-Adapter/dp/B01CFOHF6U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504291978&sr=8-1&keywords=Yamaha+MD-BT01+Bluetooth+Wireless+MIDI+Adaptor
Yes, you can get a Quicco or Yamaha Bluetooth MIDI adapter. Then you can add MIDI presets for each program change to your songs:

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/sending_MIDI.html
So I can I send MIDI data from AX8. So I can avoid the AX8 looper and trigger an MP3 instead. Can BandHelper be programmed loop said MP3 and then stop the MP3 when receiving another MIDI signal? What message?

http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks
Or set up automation tracks to send them automatically at the desired times:
This is what I want to do.

So I enter MIDI hex code into "RAW" field? How do I sync that MIDI data with the backing track MP3? Are MIDI triggers accurately synced with the audio?
 
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Control Change.
This message is sent when a controller value changes. Controllers include devices such as pedals and levers. Controller numbers 120-127 are reserved as "Channel Mode Messages" (below). (ccccccc) is the controller number (0-119). (vvvvvvv) is the controller value (0-127).
I want BandHelper to change the AX8 from Scene 1 to Scene 2 for the chorus. The chorus will be played by the backing track, so this has to be synced properly. Is switching from Scene 1 to Scene 2 a controller change? And what MIDI code does that? How can I set up the timing for it?

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 12:34:33 PM »
Quote
I'm buying this, is it the right one?

Yes, that's a popular one to use with my apps.

Quote
So I can I send MIDI data from AX8. So I can avoid the AX8 looper and trigger an MP3 instead. Can BandHelper be programmed loop said MP3 and then stop the MP3 when receiving another MIDI signal? What message?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. BandHelper has a basic loop function designed for practice only; it's not sub-second accurate and can't be controlled with MIDI. If you want to perform with audio loops, you'd need a different app for that.

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So I enter MIDI hex code into "RAW" field?

You only need to use the Raw MIDI field to send MIDI messages other than song select messages and program change messages. There are separate fields dedicated to those messages.

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How do I sync that MIDI data with the backing track MP3?

You would start recording an automation track, then play the backing track and click the buttons to send the MIDI presets at the right times. The automation track captures those actions and their timing.

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Are MIDI triggers accurately synced with the audio?

Yes, but if you are playing audio over Bluetooth, that introduces a delay, so you might need to use a wired audio connection. I suppose if you play over Bluetooth while recording the automation track, then any delay would also be captured by the automation timing. But then if you switched to wired later, all the timing would be off. Personally I would use a wired connection unless there's some reason your stage setup doesn't allow that.

Quote
I want BandHelper to change the AX8 from Scene 1 to Scene 2 for the chorus. The chorus will be played by the backing track, so this has to be synced properly. Is switching from Scene 1 to Scene 2 a controller change? And what MIDI code does that?

That depends on the device you're sending to, so you should check the documentation for that product to find out what MIDI messages it needs to receive.

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 03:02:09 PM »
Yes, that's a popular one to use with my apps.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. BandHelper has a basic loop function designed for practice only; it's not sub-second accurate and can't be controlled with MIDI. If you want to perform with audio loops, you'd need a different app for that.
If I can't loop a backing track then I will make a long backing track for that section of the tune over which a solo is performed.  < 5 min work.

That's different from what I was originally asking but this should be useful if I can figure it out how to do it.


Quote
You only need to use the Raw MIDI field to send MIDI messages other than song select messages and program change messages. There are separate fields dedicated to those messages.

You would start recording an automation track, then play the backing track and click the buttons to send the MIDI presets at the right times. The automation track captures those actions and their timing.


I saw the YouTube video for automation and what I see on my screen looks totally different. If you or your QA guy can Skype with me I can pay you some and you can see what is wrong and we can probably get it working for me. I am using iPhone 7 plus. Some oddities there. Crashes sometimes, too.

In AX8, CC messages to trigger scene changes. I'd like to link to that section of manual but it's a PDF. 

Quote
For SCENE SELECT, the value of the Control Change message determines which Scene is loaded. The easy rule is Scene number -1 = CC# Data Value. (Ex: Scene 1, Value 0).However, values greater than 7 continue to select scenes, in order. To determine the Scene for values >7, add 1 and divide by 8. The REMAINDER is the Scene that will be selected. Ex: 62+1 = 63, 63 รท 8 = 7 remainder 7, so 63 loads Scene 7.SCENE INCR and DECR are triggered by CC# data values greater than 63.
Quote
Yes, but if you are playing audio over Bluetooth, that introduces a delay,
I just launched MIDI wrench from my iPhone, connected to my Mac via Audio MIDI setup, and then triggered some disco hits in logic. Every time I tapped the touchscreen keyboard, I heard a sound and I could not detect any latency there.

How can I set up an automation track on BH? Again, what I see on my iPhone looks different from what I see in the video. I don't get it. http://www.bandhelper.com/tutorials/performing.html#automation_tracks
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 03:10:44 PM by Burgenoff »

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 12:13:00 AM »
That video is three years old. The automation track functionality hasn't changed much since then, but a lot of the rest of the app has. Of course, the iPad interface is different from an iPhone interface, too. If the video is confusing, please try the written instructions, which are always up to date.

I wouldn't expect much latency with wireless MIDI, but Bluetooth audio always has an audible delay in my experience.

If you're seeing problems or especially crashes, please submit a help ticket:

https://helpdesk.arlomedia.com/arlomedia/add.html

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 09:10:09 PM »
Looks like some replies to this thread got deleted.

All the songs I entered into band helper were deleted, too.

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 12:48:24 AM »
I deleted some off-topic posts in this thread.

I don't see any evidence of songs getting deleted. Your account had seven songs in it when I looked at it last week, and it still does. See also: http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1728.msg6702.html#msg6702

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 10:45:17 PM »
It was showing songs (0), with no songs listed there. So I just force-quit and relaunched it and the songs came back like they were before.

Thank you,

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2017, 07:39:28 AM »
 Has anyone been able to get simultaneous audio and MIDO to play using ban helper or any other software?  Please explain. Thank you. 

(Billing notifications kicked in today.)

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 08:33:06 AM »
Yes, lots of people do this. What do you want explained that I haven't already addressed above?

Burgenoff

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 09:24:19 AM »
I have seen no evidence of anyone getting this thing to work!

Who here has gotten band helper automation tracks to work iPhone.

What other proven solutions exist for automation tracks on iOS?

Thank you

arlo

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Re: Simultaneous Wireless Audio & MIDI
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 12:09:10 PM »
Probably nobody else is responding because this thread title doesn't ask the question you're now looking for, and the thread itself is long and covers several topics. Here's evidence on this forum of people doing what you want to do:

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1525.0.html

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,1059.0.html

http://forum.arlomedia.com/index.php/topic,490.0.html